[ SECRET POST #3076 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3076 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17. [WARNING for rape/sexual abuse]








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 103 secrets from Secret Submission Post #440.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fingalsanteater]

I don't even get why she can't be feminist. Because she fails at something due to her ptsd? So women can't have mental illness borne of tragedy, and can't fail at something? She's a fairly well-rounded female character in a movie full of barely explored characters or caricatures and I appreciate that.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't you know? All women characters these days need to be hard as nails, no emotions, no flaws (helloooo 'flawless queen' tumblr mentality!), no nothing except for bare bones tough person tropes.

Y'know, to make them 100% relatable and human. /sarcasm

[(Anonymous)]

This is one of the main parts of feminism that really bothers me.
I really wish the "any female charcter who shows any emotion is totally weak and sexist!"
mindset would just go away.
(see: the overreaction of Natasha's portrayal in aou.)

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

I think when feminism was a respectable movement, occupied by people who cared about real equality, their rallying cry was "women can be whatever men can be." But now that most people in the West, especially in younger generations have accepted this truth, those who still want to call themselves feminists need to say something different to give them a reason to exist. Now they say "women are better than men." A female character, to be good in their eyes, cannot be weak, as humans are. She must be more than human, otherwise her creator is sexist in their eyes even if they are a long supporter of the feminist moment like Joss Whedon.

[(Anonymous)]

No.

Female characters are viewed with a more critical eye than male characters, just as women are viewed with a more critical eye than men. So writers end up writing "perfect" female characters, because if she weren't perfect she'd be criticized for every single flaw that people would let slide or find endearing in a male character.

[(Anonymous)]

(Same person)

I really don't think women are viewed more critically than men on the whole. It depends on the context of who is benefited more, men or women. There's sexism in both directions.

I think it's mostly women who are the most critical of female characters. I think there are plenty of well written, realistic, human female characters that both men and women can relate to. But they are way more quick to find fault in them than any male geek or nerd I've met or talked to about a piece of media. Or hell, even if my high school English class. I remember this one girl went off about Daisy from The Great Gatsby and how much she hated her. It was the most passionate she ever got in class.

[(Anonymous)]

da

"I think it's mostly women who are the most critical of female characters."

This is so true. The women I've seen be the loudest about bashing female characters they don't like are the ones who are also the loudest about how feminist they are for doing so.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Perhaps because men are perfectly happy to have women in eye-candy, objectifying, useless positions?

That's like saying portrayals of black or Asian or whatever characters are fine, because really it's only those minorities claiming that it's racist. All the white people think it's fine, therefore, not a problem.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't that assume that men aren't interested in real discussion about the media they consume? That men can't be engaged and thoughtful viewers and a pair of breasts is enough to distract them from thinking forever? There are a lot of male English teachers and professors in the world, as well as men who enjoy cultural studies.

And "all the white people?" I think minorities should have more representation in media and I'm white. So by your logic am I truly not white or are there white individuals who recognize that representation is important?

[(Anonymous)]

(Same person)

Yep, yep. Most people who claim the term feminist now can't just take female characters in characters' terms and context. She needs to fit into their box of what a "strong" female character is, otherwise she's the worst character to ever exist. Heaven forbid that there's more than one way to be a strong woman in fiction or in real life for them.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're missing something crucial. I agree with you that it's women who criticize female characters the most. I think there are two critical parts of that, though:

1) Movies and other pieces of fiction written by men often only feature one major female character (or maybe two if you're lucky). When there's only one female character, she becomes a Representative of Femaleness. So when she's weak, when she fails, when she's stereotypically feminine in any way, it feels (more than usual) like a confirmation of the story that all/most women are weak, incompetent, or are naturally domestic/child-loving/motherly/etc., a story which hits a sensitive nerve with female viewers. How many books or movies can you think of where there was only one or two male characters with a speaking role, and it was written by a woman? How would that affect your analysis of what you believe that writer thinks of all/most men?

I think a lot of problems would be solved by making casts 50/50 men and women. This is extremely rare. Even random side characters tend to be default male. My point here is that the gender makeup of stories being told in the media is NOT balanced male/female, so I would be very surprised if the critical analysis wasn't gender-skewed as well. When there's only one female character, she has to be perfect or she becomes a lightning rod for criticism, mostly from women because...

2) Similar to what a poster downthread mentioned, men and women have different criteria for analyzing female characters. For men, I think it's enough to have a female character who is interesting, funny, has her moments to shine, looks pretty, and has an appealing personality. For women, because they are concerned with how their gender is portrayed or handled in various media, they have a lot more concerns about fictional women other than whether she's likable. Things they might be looking for include, is this character developed enough for me to identify with her? Is this character important enough in the film to have her own goals or influence the story by decisions she makes? Does she actually have an identifiable personality, or is she just generically a Suitable Love Interest? Is she sexualized for gratuitous reasons? It's easy for men to be nonchalant about portrayals of women, because they don't experience the direct negative experiences resulting from those portrayals. So yeah, like below poster said, the people who have the most stake in the portrayals are going to be the most critical of them. (Sidenote: I think there are even male portrayals that I as a woman have particular issue with because of they implication they have for women. One I can think of is the "socially awkward tech genius" stereotype featured in so many recent movies and TV shows. This makes it really hard for social, friendly women in tech to be taken seriously because they MUST lack skills. :/ And makes it so girls are turned off by tech fields because they think their colleagues will be like that. I and people I know have to live with this effect, which makes it much harder to tolerate when I see it being played out in fiction.)

I do agree that a lot of feminist criticism is literally a double-bind. For example, if you have an "unconventional" female character (for example, a weirdo like Allison in The Breakfast Club) who gets a love interest, then you're opening yourself up to criticism along the lines of "Are you saying all women need love to be fulfilled?? I related to her, and I find the romance plotline completely unnecessary and forced." If you don't give the unconventional female character a love interest, then you're opening yourself up to criticism of the type, "Are you saying outcasts like her are undeserving of love?? Good to know your definitions of attractiveness are so narrow." Sometimes it's no-win, and different people come to different conclusions, making feminism look like a never-happy monster that criticizes characters for daring to have flaws. I don't disagree with that, but I do think the solution is clear (make roughly half of the roles female). The complaints will go away.

[(Anonymous)]

This is why I think that that the SJWs who have inherited the title "feminist" don't actually care about representation of women in media. This character you've described might be scorned as a "man with boobs" by some of the social justice types. That means she's ashamed of her femaleness and that women have to become men to be accepted! Patriarchy!
Really there's no type of female character that ever satisfies them. If she's too womanly and has desires of a home, spouse, and children it's a "real women don't wear dresses situation." She's a betrayer to women for wanting traditional things! Patriarchy! You honestly can't win with with them. They only want censorship of things they thing "trigger" them, not creative story telling.

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, true! I'm glad that these characters are slowly changing away from that though. It has taken a long time, but we're getting there. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

In theory it's fine to tell stories about women who screw up and need men to bail them out, in practice it's still the most common woman story we hear.

[(Anonymous)]

Good thing her story was about her overcoming her past trauma and obsession with avenging her family by killing a monster herself in midair, instead of what you just described, then.

[(Anonymous)]

Killing a monster with a guy's help, because that's how drift works. And then not being permitted to risk her life alongside him at zero hour.

I'm not saying Mako Mori's story isn't interesting or anything, I'm saying it's a really hollow example of ~zoomj womyn power~ .

[caerbannog]

Mako Mori is awesome :c

[cbrachyrhynchos]

She fails at something due to Ralleigh's PTSD. Big plot point.