fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3108 ]

[ SECRET POST #3108 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3108 ⌋

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11. http://i.imgur.com/86QBdN9.png

I agree that Kate Bush is extremely rad. I also agree that some of her early work is unfortunate - but I don't know whether it's useful to call it 'cissexist'. And I also think, you know, that sort of thing was the style of the times, and while it was mistaken, I think it's fair to make allowances and to recognize that there were real reasons for taking those kinds of positions and that the situation has changed in relevant ways since then.

Lord love a duck. Must everything be viewed through the prism of today's sexual politics and then judged?

Don't like those songs because they don't fit your narrow worldview? Then quit listening to them. Simple. Or better yet learn to be more open and appreciative of other people's povs.

AYRT

I do agree with you on the outcome, but I think there's something to be said for viewing things through the prism of today's sexual politics. In the sense that I think it's neither unavoidable or bad.

The key of course is to have a sense both of empathy & of historical realism - but I'm not sure how it's wrong to judge the work of, for instance, Oscar Wilde with our modern understanding of homosexuality in mind, on some level.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 03:04 (UTC) - Expand

+1

This, so much.

The OP said they usually do skip them... so I don't see the hostility to them for expressing an opinion. Sheesh.

I love that I am not the only person who says, "Lord love a duck"!

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 09:38 (UTC) - Expand

Cissexist just because it's about motherhood and periods and stuff? I don't think that's necessarily cissexist - of course not all women have those experiences (including some cis women), but I'd assume the songs are sort of for the ones who do have them, and have been made to feel bad, like by guys who act like periods are gross or make the person having them crazy.

(and I'm saying this as a woman who doesn't even want kids, so the earth mother stuff isn't usually my thing)

da

This. There are a lot of cis women out there who don't have periods and can't bear children, but I don't think the song is criticizing them. Just because a song doesn't apply to literally every woman on the planet doesn't mean it's cissexist

exactly

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 21:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: exactly

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-13 21:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: exactly

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-15 19:18 (UTC) - Expand

THANK YOU. It drives me nuts when people insist that everyone should say (for example) "people with uteruses" instead of "women" when talking about health and reproduction, because to do otherwise is cissexist or transphobic. And calling those songs cissexist is along the same lines.

wouldn't it just be sexist?

I think OP's point is that associating womanhood with child birth is exclusive to transwomen. Idk.

But motherhood - parenthood - is more than just pregnancy, though, right?

No reason a transwoman can't be a great mother, since there tons more to motherhood than growing a placenta and lactating, afer all.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-08 23:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 01:41 (UTC) - Expand

Well yeah, it childbirth does exclude people born with phalluses and testicles. So what?

It's meant to be feminist and women-empowery

could still be sexist, IDK

For god's fucking sakes. Plenty of ciswomen don't experience the "punctual blues" and they never gave a shit about being ZOOMJ ERASED from Strange Phenomena.

At first I was just going to make a snide remark about the "cissexist" part, but mentioning Hathor in the same sentence as Kate? I hate you.

Care to explain why? Do you have a problem with ancient Egyptian religion or Kate Bush?

http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Hathor_the_Cow_Goddess

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 00:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

insanenoodlyguy - 2015-07-09 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2015-07-09 00:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

elialshadowpine - 2015-07-09 02:40 (UTC) - Expand

lmao, same. Shame on you, OP

Now I wonder if it's been over ten years since I listened to Kate Bush much. I mean, I have listened to some in the last ten years, but not a lot.

Kate Bush's isn't a confessional singer songwriter and her lyrics don't necessarily reflect her own personal viewpoint and opinions. She writes from the perspective of and in the persona of various characters. Ascribing the values and perspectives of fictional characters - albeit sometimes based on real people - to the creator of those characters is daft, frankly.

You are absolutely ridiculous for thinking that is cissexist. Jesus Christ. I am so tired of people looking for something to be offended by. If this were a blatantly racist work or a song putting down men or women intentionally then, yeah, go to town. She is celebrating her own idea of the role of a woman. You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't make it cissexist. Degas painted ballerinas. I'm an archer. Am I going to call him out on not painting archers? Do I demand the Canadian national anthem at a baseball game in Miami? No, because they are celebrating America. Do I think Siouxsie Sioux better represents my femininity? You bet, but does that mean I am going to call out Kate for being a bad role model for women? I am not every woman and neither is Kate. She has no responsibility to placate every type of woman.

Grow up.

da

I don't read the OP as being that offended. Unless they believe Kate's a confessional singer (they did say "her opinion"), that as an anon above said, she isn't.

But even "her opinion" still doesn't sound like OP thinks Kate has the responsibility to placate every woman. And they still like Kate.

Otoh, maybe I'm underreacting to cissexist.

Most women do become mothers at some point in their lives. Sorry if a songwriter reflected that fact.

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