fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #390 ]

[ SECRET POST #390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- First comment, you know what to do!
- Big thank you to Gargant for the help here! 8D

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 152 secrets from Secret Submission Post #056.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, January 31st, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

1. Don't blink. Don't even blink.

14. Wheee, troll! (And if you're serious, then you're a fuckwit, go DIAF.)

31. Also stupid! Light would have ended up making up his own damn definitions of criminal so he could keep on killing people. He would have ended up with a fascist regime. You know, it's that whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely" thing.

38. I thought the original point was that Xavin doesn't actually have a gender. What was it sie said the first time they met? Oh yeah! "I change gender the same way I change my clothes." Xavin's not male.

Not to say the two of them don't have some huge fucking issues that need to get worked out, just that Xavin is not mono-gendered. and blaming their issues on Xavin wanting to be one gender and Karolina wanting hir to be another is an oversimplification and, I think, a misreading of their relationship.

48. Are you me?

59. HOT. Pls to be writing fanfiction now.

Edited 2008-01-30 23:04 (UTC)

He originally said that "for Skrulls, changing gender is like changing clothes"; i.e. shapeshifting is as easy. He strikes me as identifying as male, personally.

Except, up until Whedon took over the book, Xavin literally swapped gender every panel...

Not really. He tended to be primarily male, only changing when he felt it necessary to do so -- which was usually when he comforted Karolina. Aside from that, his gender was pretty consistent.

Not really-- the genderswapping was so bad that Molly commented on it at one point, saying that it made her uncomfortable.

*shrugs* I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I mean, I think that Xavin's amount of gender-swapping is left up to interpretation. Personally, I didn't see him switching back and forth like his life depended on it -- I assumed Molly's comment was more to the effect of why he/she even kept switching back between genders at all (like, he should have just stayed in one form -- or just female, which I'm guessing most of the other characters would have preferred).

I suppose so. My feeling was that Xavin's problems with Karolina have more to do with a really severe culture gap than the gender stuff-- it's just that K and the other Runaways were raised in a culture where gender is static, and Xavin wasn't.

Hmm. Interesting. But doesn't the whole idea of the culture gap -- or, of Xavin's gender not being static -- sort of relate back to the whole issue that Karolina's a lesbian, and is supposed to be with a 'girlfriend?' This probably wasn't your point, but, I can help but feel like the two issues are the same.

Less "girlfriend" and more "lovers", I think. Just because you're in a relationship with someone doesn't mean you should efface yourself for them-- even if that means you end up doing or being something that bothers them. Xavin was raised in a certain way that apparently involves changing genders to suit the situation (being a woman for your lover, being a man when you want respect, being whatever feels comfortable the rest of the time). I would respect Xavin less if s/he was to stop being who s/he is just because Karolina said she was only attracted to women.

To take the changing clothes analogy-- my girlfriend likes people who dress professionally. (Hypothetically) she comes from a culture where people don't really change between punk and professional, you're either one or the either and it defines you. I come from a place where I can wear what I like when I like. Does that mean I should completely stop switching back and forth because my girlfriend prefers one to the other? Or should she try to learn to relax her standards about dress? Or a little bit of both?

That goes back to a culture gap. How far does one or the other have to reach to bridge the culture gap? Xavin was clearly learning about earth culture and customs-- I'm not really sure I've seen Karolina try and learn about Xavin's culture, although she does seem to be relaxing her standards a bit when it comes to Xavin's gender.

Edited 2008-01-31 00:19 (UTC)

Okay, I think I understand better what you're saying here.

Honestly, though, I don't know if you can compare switching genders with switching clothing styles. Yes, they're both outside changes, not inside ones, but it seems like a switch from male-to-female (or visa versa) is a much more radical issue than someone simply having different clothing preferences.

Personally, I would respect Xavin more if he was willing to remain female full time, for Karolina's sake, because then I (again, personally) would feel as though Xavin really did care for Karolina. Really, though, I think that if Karolina and Xavin weren't dating, I wouldn't have such a big issue with his/her gender-swapping.

And as a last point: I think that Karolina did try to learn about Xavin's culture, but it all just happened off-panel while they were away visiting their respective planets for their marriage. But, I really don't know.

I use the clothing analogy because that was the analogy Xavin used when Karolina said she liked women. For Skrulls, changing gender is like changing clothes. In other words-- for skrulls, it's not a big deal.

I can see where you're coming from, and I think it's a matter of what you think matters more-- whether a character proves their faithfulness to themselves or to their lover. And, you know, in a relationship, that's honestly where a lot of the friction comes from. (The culture gap creates a difference in self vs lover's expectation, and you have to navigate and bridge that gap.)

In other news, your icon is adorable.

I use the clothing analogy because that was the analogy Xavin used when Karolina said she liked women. For Skrulls, changing gender is like changing clothes. In other words-- for skrulls, it's not a big deal.

Ara! I totally forgot that line. Now your clothing analogy makes even more sense. ;]

Honestly, I think we both have good arguments, but, like you said, what it really comes down to is what you consider to be more important -- if a character is faithful to themselves or someone else.

And thank you! <3

:D I love debating this stuff. It's so nerdy. (And also sort of weird, since I much prefer Victor and Gert over Xavin and K...)

Haruka and Michiru were my first ever OTP.

It is nerdy! But so much fun. :D

Haruka and Michiru were my first ever OTP too. Probably my favorite OTP ever, too. They're the only couple that never left me unsatisfied. (God, that sounds weird -- I hope my intention was clear!).

38. I don't really have much time (or I'd love to stay and talk!) but suffice to say I agree very much with your reading of the characters, and I was hoping someone would bring it up. <3

Skrulls are gender dimorphic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyja), and Xavin's Skrull form is male.

...oh, so that's why I keep seeing anons post URLs that way. I swear I used the <a href> tag. WTF?

Changing gender is apparently like changing clothes though-- according to the character. Possibly we don't see other skrulls change because they're well-versed enough in Earth culture to know that it would be off-putting, who knows? Clearly, though, Xavin doesn't mind changing back and forth.

Actually, he said it was like changing hair color -- and I don't know about you, but if the person I was in love with could only love me if I were to change my hair color, I'd be pretty uncomfortable.

And yet s/he seems to be pretty okay with it.

Xavin's coming from a culture where it's permissible to change your hair color on a regular basis, and moving into a culture where it's not. (See my metaphor about clothing.) And s/he acknowledges that, because it's the only way to deal with weird earth customs that everyone around hir obeys.

38. As the other anon said, Skrulls have always had genders (Lyja is female, Kl'rt is male, etc). I read Xavin's comment as glossing over the issue, not actually saying that (s)he could be male or female.

Obviously, the gender thing isn't the only the only issue in their relationship, but I would argue that it is significant. Xavin seems to appear male unless reminded to be female, which signifies (imho) that being male is more comfortable for him/her.

And I read it as saying s/he could be male or female, since Xavin's very pointedly switched back and forth before, without being asked. (I keep thinking of the Young Avengers crossover, where Xavin very definitely swapped multiple times for no particular reason. I'm pretty sur s/he's done it elsewhere, as well, I just can't find my trades.)

I don't think it's accurate to refer to Xavin as anything by trans or queer, personally, since s/he doesn't seem to particularly mind being either one to my eyes. I see Xavin tending towards male usually in battle or in situations where s/he wants to gain respect, but not consistently being male during relaxation periods. But, clearly, IMO.

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[ SECRET POST #390 ]

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