fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3141 ]

[ SECRET POST #3141 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3141 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Are people so defensive about/protective of the practice of rating human beings (mostly women, let's face it) on a numeric attractiveness rating scale? Is it really such an ingrained habit or so important to people that they should be able to do this, and that the practice shouldn't be looked down upon?

It's difficult to see why it's harmful.

If you think that it's okay to find people attractive, and if you think that you can consider one person more attractive than another, I'm not sure how a rating scale is that different from those things.

Of course you can use it to be an ass, but that doesn't make it wrong.

It's difficult to see why it's harmful.

AYRT

I'm not sure it's actively harmful to the "target," so to speak. But I'm not sure it's not, to be honest. Reducing a human being to a number is just gross to me. Saying I find someone attractive really isn't the same thing. I can find person A attractive because of their personality, person B attractive because of a damn fine ass, person C attractive because of a combination of factors...reducing it to a number seems so icky and objectifying to me.

So that's why I can't understand how people are defensive about it. I just don't get it. On the other hand, I'm close to 40 years old, so it may well just be a generation gap.

nayrt

I guess it's because the rater doesn't, uh, show their work getting the number.

I just care how they get the number, and how seriously they take their calculation. If they just use it as a ranking thing, e.g., 5 is average among people I've considered, 9 is a pleasant surprise, I let it slide. But if they think hmm, I'll rate everyone, adjusting each score as they age or as I see hotter people, with ass counting for 25% of the total, and this number will be my main consideration for their worth, then ew.

But it's not reducing a human being to a number. It's reducing their attractiveness to a number. That's a significant difference to me. Because a person is, obviously, so much more than their attractiveness. It's assigning a number to your, completely subjective, feelings about another person.

I'm not especially defensive about it, I don't think - it's not like it's something that I actively do. I just don't see any good argument for why it's wrong.

I do agree that anyone treating it like any objective social fact is an idiot and an ass. But that's a much more specific thing.

Re: why people are defensive. you call it "objectifying", that's the kind of accusation people want to defend against. you say this is an objectifying practice and that it's icky, people who do it (a. don't take it seriously enough to actually consider the people as nothing more than a number, and (b. don't feel they deserve the accusation of objectification and ickyness (and the connected implication of misogyny) for expressing their relative attraction in numerical form.

Also, there's always the feeling that the people criticizing the practice don't really get it. Like the constant argument is that "Attractiveness is subjective, so a numbers scale doesn't work" like people don't already know that attractiveness is subjective but can you think of a better way to express relative attraction? Would colours be better? "I think Mickey Rourke is a blue and Michael Fassbender is a Red?".

TLDR, it's just a harmless dumb thing people do and people don't like being told they're bad people for doing their dumb harmless stuff.

Question: Do you find rating a person's intelligence as a number equally dehumanising?

If you're talking about IQ, I think it's a worthless scale, and yes, dehumanizing in a sense. There are so many different types of intelligence - IQ measures one particular type, and is essentially meaningless. The fact that people hang so much importance on it has caused a lot of damage.

I'm defensive of it when people call it offensive because I don't get why it's offensive

People are going to be comparatively more or less attractive to you and everyone reasonable knows that the entire thing is completely subjective and what may be a 10 to one person may be a 2 to another, and what's the harm?

Should people simply never express how comparatively attractive they find another person?

Why is "10" awful but "omg hawwwwt" okay? Why is "1" awful but "ew gross" any better?

Because people are stupid.

It's stupid and hypocritical, too, because all of those people have expressed the same opinions, only in different words. I refuse to believe they have never once said person or character A is more or less attractive than person or character B

But you add numbers and suddenly everyone loses their minds

Mostly women? Why do you think that? I rate men (but then I am a hetero female). hell, there is an app for rating men (Lulu).

I think, in their minds, if they say that it's mostly done by men to women, they don't have to say anything else to prove it's wrong.

AYRT

There's an app?! Jesus Christ.

I think that because that's at least 95% of how I've seen it used, primarily on Reddit and Imgur. I'm not sure I've seen it used for anyone that's NOT a woman, except here on F!S.

people can do it all they want, but the way it's expressed (especially, as you said, in terms of straight men's perceptions of women) really annoys me because it belies some nasty attitudes. :/

I hate when people act like their numbers are objective

That's the issue, not the numbers being used at all

NA ^^THIS

I think there's an extra level of dehumanising the way so many men tend to do it about women with each other, but women acting like men are some objective (hdu not agree!) "hot" or "ugly" bugs the fuck out of me too.

May I ask, what "nasty attitudes"?

And I respect you so want this to turn into a nasty internet argument, so let me be sporting and mention that I will be asking the follow up questions:
"What evidence do you have of these attitudes being present?"
"Why do you believe these attitudes are present in especially in men who do this to women?"
"Is it not possible that you are inferring these attitudes based on your own expectations of the men who do it, rather than them actually being implied?"

I mostly see it used by the same guys who make generalizations/sexist statements about women/gender in general, ascribe to MRA-style thinking, etc.

~~you sound like a defensive dude here tbh~~

Yeah, I am a little defensive, I don't like how people ascribe shitty thing to men and never question why they do it other than "Everyone knows its only those types of guys" without actually acknowledging the flawed nature of the generalisation. like "Oh I was only talking about the dickheads" Means they can forget about the fact that they just made a generalisation, rather than thinking "Oh shit, that's probably upsetting if you're not a dickhead".

Anyway, in this case, you said "but the way it's expressed" but your justification is "used by the same guys" which sounds more like your objection more about who does it and not how they do it. That being the case, this seems like one of those circular lines of

Disregard above. Finger slipped mid type.

Yeah, I am a little defensive, I don't like how people ascribe shitty thing to men and never question why they do it other than "Everyone knows its only those types of guys" without actually acknowledging the flawed nature of the generalisation. like "Oh I was only talking about the dickheads" Means they can forget about the fact that they just made a generalisation, rather than thinking "Oh shit, that's probably upsetting to hear if you're not a dickhead" and then there's the whole thing of "If you complain about something upsetting you (especially if your a guy) you deserve to be upset" Which is another example of the type of logic I don't like "MRA's complain about mens treatment, MRA's are usually dickheads, so if you're complaining about being mens treatment, you must be a dickhead too".

Anyway, in this case, you said "but the way it's expressed" but your justification is "used by the same guys" which sounds more like your objection more about who does it and not how they do it. That being the case, this seems like one of those circular lines of reasoning:

You experience asshole doing X
You think assholes do X
You think only assholes do X
You see person A doing X
You believe Person A is an asshole and avoid them. Never find out if they're not an asshole.
Goes into you're mental asshole bank
Repeat.

okaaaay but. There's a correlation there. It really is mostly assholes doing it. Why do you think it is?

And it's a bit hard to put my finger on it atm, but the thing in and of itself is kinda creepy. It's like looking at a woman and all you can even process about her is the way she looks. It's usually said in a really flippant way, and often a dude's first response to seeing a picture of a woman somewhere (among dudes who do it).

Because they do it.

And instead of thinking "huh, maybe this is dickish and I should stop", they flip out and scream SJW.

or maybe they just disagree with you

maybe the problem is that you haven't actually provided any good reason it's dickish

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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