fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #394 ]

[ SECRET POST #394 ]

⌈ Secret Post #394 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 375 secrets from Secret Submission Post #057.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat, [ 1 2 ] too big, [ 1 ] personal attack, [ 1 ] we went through this yesterday.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, February 4th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In some situations, sure. Not all.

The point is, women are proactively seeking career-driven futures in today's world. What they make is a moot point, because obviously they're making enough to live off of.

If one teenage girl gets it into her head that she should and can depend on a man to pay her way, that's her problem.

Besides that, there are some guys who would do anything for their S.O., including pay their way in life, and if they both are comfortable in that relationship, I wouldn't judge them. Key word here: BOTH.

See: glass ceiling.

Dude.

Please. Relevant points only.

You're not making ANY.

Yes, I am.

Yes, women are definitely more college- and career-driven these days (some would argue more than men are), but it still exists within a system that values women's work (even if it's the same work as men's) less than men's. So, you get less women being promoted to higher positions within companies, either because their work is not valued as much by the (predominantly male) higher-ups, or it's expected that they won't be able to work as much once they get married and have children (see also: America's fucked-up policies regarding work, family and child care).

It all exists within a system, so it's kinda hard to pick out some bits and say that the rest doesn't matter, because IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

No, you aren't,

A salary of a woman being lower does not mean that women still WANT TO DEPEND ON MEN. I've seen women support their families while working as phone tech support.

of course, you're going by america only so your veiws and mine will be vastly different.

Of course it doesn't mean that they want to be dependent on men. But there is the EXPECTATION and social/cultural pressure/tradition that they SHOULD be, which manifests in pay descrepency.

Even individual choices exist within a system. Nothing is decided within a vaccuum.

yes, but you're blaming men...

Oh wait. That's right. you're blaming MEN.

I'm just going to ignore you now :D

I'm not blaming men. I'm blaming a system that favors men over women. It's called patriarchy, and it fucks everyone up- women AND men.

I don't see what's hard to understand about that.

Despite the name, common sense isn't common.

See also: Some of the greatest suporters of patriarchy are women.

they're making a very valid argument here, i just think you're not listening, or the information is going right over your head because you've missed the whole point of what they're saying.

in layman's terms: Society, whether women like it or not, functions on the idea that women are the lesser-than beings, and because of this, even though we try and fight it, we feel backed into a corner with the only option of depending on a man. Some just give up easier then others.

OT: the Zero Punctuation icons are SO appropriate/amazing here.

[I made a bunch] (http://pics.livejournal.com/pinstripesuit/gallery/0002a85a), if you want to take any.

Re: OP 16

germania731.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 20:26 (UTC) - Expand

A salary of a woman being lower does not mean that women still WANT TO DEPEND ON MEN. I've seen women support their families while working as phone tech support.

So you know what women everywhere want? That's nice.

I'm talking statistics. But of course, patriachy determines what women everywhere want so who cares right?

I've never heard of such statistics, but I have heard plenty of statistics to the contrary.

I'm guessing you're talking American then, because i'm talking about canada.

Re: OP 16

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

paperclipchains.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-04 01:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

tealizard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

(Anonymous) - 2008-02-04 02:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: OP 16

ronsard.livejournal.com - 2008-02-04 01:49 (UTC) - Expand

Forget North America? Let's go east, shall we, where at a certain Ministry of Foreign Affairs, gender-blind hiring policies are a thing to dream of. In fact, there are actually quota numbers for how many men and women they can hire in a specific year, and believe me, the male quota is always a wee bit higher because possibly some obscure study has shown that men make better diplomats, God only knows. I speak as the daughter of a woman who worked for 10 years in their HR department. And did someone say statistics? Well, here're some (http://whatjapanthinks.com/2005/12/23/endemic-discrimination-against-japanese-women-part-1-of-2/) from Japan, our one true haven of sanctity. Feast your eyes, warriors of justice.

Personally, I don't get your point at all about women being more career-driven and thus not having to depend on men even when their salary is lower. Sure, it's good they're no longer strictly dependent on the menfolk, but the fact that they're being paid less for roughly the same amount of work? THAT'S THE PROBLEM. To career-minded women, it's a pretty big problem, and some of them don't even realize it because these systems have been in place for so long that they seem like "the way things ought to be."

But it's still not common practice.
About a year or so ago, there was a big scandal in England - England's public office to ensure the welfare and equal rights of women - a GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT - was paying its female employees at least 3000 pounds LESS than the men. Even though there were only about 20% male employees in the department at the time.

I acknowledge the cruel back-handed manner that some girls use to get pregnant, and the stupid reasons for doing so, whether a problem within themselves or whether society is "to blame". And though condoms aren't 100% effective all the time, guys still should wear one, especially when you're young and not yet able (mentally or otherwise) to support yourself. You can't blatantly blame the woman exclusively in every case.

okay, but that's not RELEVANT.

What is relevant is that women are no longer depending on men as they used to. Sure their pay may be less, etc, but that doesn't mean they're NOT looking to a career in their future.

Also I don't blatantly blame the woman. I just can't stand when people say that the guys are at fault, as if they are the only ones as well... it takes two people to make a baby, and yes sometimes guys insist on sex. but chicks can say no. AND VICE VERSA, since yeah, sex feinds in both genders etc etc

THANK YOU!

YW :D

DO YOU JUST NOT FUCKING GET IT?

Less pay is NOT something to be fucking content about, son of a bitch!

... I... didn't say it was. I said it was irrellevant to the situation :D HOORAY.

Whoa, Speedy Gonazales much? That was fast as hell.

Okay, let me more politely because I was a total douche sorry spell it out:

Less pay for equal work (and this is something only complete morons like seris don't agree with) is widely accepted as a social norm, and thus a strong explanation for women not seeking as ambitious goals as their male counterparts. The point is that it's all interconnected.

I love gmail notifier <3

I'm against the idea yes. However less pay does not mean that less women want careers. It is related to women in the workplace, but not to the fact that more and more women are going to college and becoming career women.

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