fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3154 ]

[ SECRET POST #3154 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3154 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah. I really wish their FIRST line of questions would be "do you need medical attention" or "which way did your attacker go" rather than "are you the type of victim we want to spend time helping". Because, seriously, the officers only started to take me seriously or DO anything after I satisfied their 'list'. Would they have still investigated if I hadn't? I hope so, but honestly, considering some stories I've heard, I seriously doubt it.

Which is why, again, "teaching rape prevention" is a fucking stupid concept. Caution is good, but it's not prevention, it is not avoidance, and most of what people advise is common sense that 'women' don't need to be 'taught' specially. But the bottom line is that the only person who can prevent rape from happening is the rapist.

Some people lack common sense. Some people need to be taught these common sense things. They still don't deserve to be raped. Teaching ways for a person to avoid rape is NOT A BAD THING. It will NEVER BE A BAD THING.

If you can do it in a way that (A) does not lead to victim blaming and (B) does not lead to people getting stopping at "just educate women" and doing nothing else, maybe.

I am skeptical about whether that's actually possible.

As was said earlier, there is no way, because people will cry victim blaming in every case that does not involve immediate painful castration of a potential rapist with a staple remover.

If you're walking around naked and intoxicated at 2 am, not due to outside circumstances beyond your control but because you have made the choice to do so, you have to take some of the blame. The point is education, it's why we teach awareness and the buddy system and all these little things. Giving a woman tools that can benefit her, because she might make a mistake, is not victim blaming.

in approximately what % of rape cases do you think the victim was walking around naked and intoxicated at 2 AM

I'm sorry the big words went over your head. Let me try again.

Men be bad. Women be smart. Women be safer. Women safe good.

you are basing your understanding of a complex social situation on ridiculous unrealistic edge cases. this is stupid, and makes your opinions bad.

similarly, the thing with your caveman-version of your argument isn't that it's untrue; it's that you're just willfully ignoring every other part of the fucking situation, for no real reason.

Yes. Training women to be safer would likely have some effect on making them safer. BUT -

1) It will make them safer to a much lesser extent than you seem to think, because your understanding of the situation is really stupid.

2) It will likely lead to more victim blaming, which is bad and dumb.

3) It is widely pushed by people who think it is the only thing we need to do about rape, which is bad and dumb.

Therefore, because of those reasons, it is probably good to have a position that goes beyond a literal insistence of the truth of the statement "Training women in self-defense and safety might decrease the amount of rape."

+1. You said it much better than I.

this is a good comment

you have to be fucking kidding me

first of all, that's extremely melodramatic

second of all, men are not super likely to rape someone just because she's not ~modestly dressed~ give me a break. most rapes happen with people the victim already knows. rapists are more likely to go for someone who they believe is vulnerable than someone who gives them an immediate boner.

walking around alone drunk is a bad idea for anyone regardless of their gender or wardrobe selection. that's just common sense. nobody is advocating we start saying it's not a good idea. but yes victim-blaming is a huge problem and no we're not calling for the immediate castration of rapists, we're calling for the judicial process to actually be FAIR and it's frustrating that you don't see that.

No, putting all the blame on men is a stupid fucking concept, because it takes all the pressure off the woman, who assumes that since it's up to the man to not rape her, she doesn't have to be aware of her situation or have any knowledge of self defense or have any kind of safety net at all. That will get a woman raped. You're arguing over fucking semantics and refusing to see the point. If you have some fucking training of some kind, any kind, that might help you prevent yourself from becoming a rape victim, then you have a chance. I'm not saying that you can't do everything right and still get raped, but if you do everything wrong, you're not going to fare any better.

You're heavily misinterpreting the OP's point, and criticising an opinion s/he hasn't expressed.

S/he isn't saying: women shouldn't have to take any common sense measures for their safety lalalala.
S/he is saying: in a lot of rape cases those common sense advice measures are used to shame the victim into thinking they should have somehow prevented their rape, something which is atypical of other crimes.

So then what is the correct course of action? We can teach these things that women need to know in order to protect themselves, and some women might be shamed for it, or we can NOT teach them, and even more women might be raped...and then shamed, for lacking the common sense defenses.

We can teach them, and THEN WE CAN EMPHASIZE TO EVERYONE that it's not a final solution, rape is never the victim's fault, and raping people is bad.

it's not a "we do or we don't" situation, there's more nuance.

This, basically.

And also, and incredibly relevant, we are right now much better at the "teach them caution" piece and completely awful at the latter things. So, given that context, it makes more sense to emphasize the other parts.

It seems like OP is only looking at the precise statement "don't teach me to avoid rape, teach men not to rape" and ignoring any other aspect of the conversation or the argument.

Seriously, what are you reading other anon? No one has remotely said that anyone shouldn't have regard for their own personally safety. No one has said that safety advice is bad. People have, in fact, said the opposite of that several times.

I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling this thread, or if you've just got such a massive bee in your bonnet about this issue that you're reading antagonistic posts where there truly aren't any.

It isn't wrong or bad or even remotely discouraged to give people safety advice. No one has given the remotest suggestion that it is. But you have somehow heard it in every post.

I really, seriously do think they're literally just arguing about the precise statement "Don't teach me not to get raped, teach men not to rape" and just ignoring any other nuance or sentiment.

Are you for real? People are antagonizing all over this shit. OP didn't say "women are solely responsible for their not being raped" but that seems to be what people read into it.

Not a single person in this thread has accused them of that! A few people have said, "yes, safety is fine but there has to be more to it", which OP has ignored and continued to reiterate and argue their point even though no one was disagreeing with that particular point.

A few people have also pointed out that assuming that women don't or won't take safety measures because of a straw man argument that "women shouldn't have to consider their own safety at all" is stupid. Precisely because the only one making that argument is the OP.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3154 ]

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