fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3175 ]

[ SECRET POST #3175 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3175 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Whenever Americans who have no connection to their ancestors home country (they have not had relatives there for many generations) and don't even know that much about it claim to be directly from that culture. People who claim to be Scottish and always brag about being Scottish and they know SO MUCH about Scotland you guys when they haven't had direct relatives in Scotland for like 5 generations or whatever and they've never visited there or anything. Maybe its I have much closer relatives who were literal immigrants, but yeah.

So how many generations is the limit, exactly

NAYRT, and I think the last of my ancestors to immigrate to the US came over around 1890-1915, but I actually kind of agree. Like, I'll say I'm mostly Irish with some Latvian and Scottish thrown in if I'm asked about my ancestry, but I don't have any claim on those cultures. And for me, the cutoff is if you, or your close relatives, have memories of the place(s) you claim to love so much and know so much about. If you grew up sick of hearing your parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles talk about wherever they immigrated from, or you had to work on softening an obvious accent, or (American specific variant) you're vaguely horrified or at least confused by the American version of a holiday/Americans celebrate a holiday that's supposedly from your/your parent's country, but you've never heard of it.

I agree that you shouldn't brag about being something if you know nothing about the history or what that actually means.

Eh, I find that a lot of Europeans especially get very defensive when Americans/Australians identify as their ethnic background. I understand if someone is claiming to know a lot about a country and they don't actually, that's annoying. But I find it annoying too when people try to discount other people's heritage, or mock them for trying to connect to that. Even people several generations past immigration still have history, especially when their immigrant ancestors often lived in communities which to some extent kept certain parts of the culture alive in a way that affects regional areas in a lot of places even today.

I suppose it's a language thing, because there isn't a natural way to separate heritage/ethnicity from nationality. Well, that is, in America it would be assumed - if someone said they were Scottish, people would understand that they aren't a Scottish national. So the way Americans talk about heritage, I think, can be easily taken the wrong way by Europeans as well.

I share your annoyance though when people with no modern connection to a country act like they understand it better or are entitled to a more meaningful opinion about a particular country than anyone else, because modern day problems are different from heritage.

Americans do it too, but almost exclusively in the form of shitting on Italian and Irish Americans.

I've never heard of this being a problem? Maybe a regional issue, my area doesn't have many Italian-Americans at all.

What, seriously? There's not as many as there used to be, but there's still a lot of Italians where I am (when my roommate's grandma died she came back from the funeral claiming she had no clue what anyone said to her because most of it was in Italian/everyone's English was accented.) And I'm roughly half Irish. I'd have to go back 50 years, minimum, to find the kind of anti-Italian and anti-Irish sentiment you're talking about.

Yeah. I'm a genealogist and I have a lot of pride in where my ancestors came from, but at the same time I would never presume to really be Irish or Scottish.

OTOH, there are communities that have retained a lot of ethnic traditions and culture, so I think they have a bit of a right to call themselves whatever they call themselves. For example, a Polish community within a town where most people speak Polish and make Polish food and many have been to Poland. (Although that's also becoming more rare with younger generations wanting to modernize.)

But why shouldn't a person of Polish heritage who doesn't do those things not be also able to identify as Polish (ethnicity)? They are just as Polish as anyone in Poland, after all. Again, I think it's just an awkward language thing, because people don't clearly differentiate between "Polish" as an ethnicity and "Polish" as an actual active nationality. Either way, someone with a Polish background will have that background whether they actively engage in it or not, the history is still theirs as much as it is anyone else's. But I do get what you mean about actively engaging in the culture vs just having a passing interest. They are different, absolutely, but I'd say people's heritages don't just disappear if they aren't used, and that heritage has undoubtedly affected who and what you are to some extent.

I mean, if you live in a country like America, it's totally typical to say you're Scottish/Irish. I don't see how that's a problem at all. I think the problem is when you use that to justify on how you're an expert in all things Scottish or Irish and you understand the modern country in the same way that a person of Scottish or Irish nationality does. (but importantly, not all of Scottish/Irish nationality would be of that ethnicity. You might very well be more "Scottish" (by blood) than loads of Scottish nationals today... some Scottish, after all, are not "Scottish" by even a drop.)

I'm rambling, but identity is a funny thing, and it's really interesting to me.

That reminds me of Ralphie May's bit about his friend who was of Mexican descent and was super sensitive to any racial talk...

https://youtu.be/ed-9xEWS064?t=50m30s

Technically I'm an immigrant I suppose, since I wasn't born in the U.S. but I grew up here and... yeah, I can see why that would get annoying because some Americans get SUPER enthusiastic about it. Like yes, your family came over from Scotland 4 generations ago, but you've never left Indiana. Maybe ease off on the whole Highlander culture thing, it's like you're trying to out-Scottish the Scots.

Trust me, Scots trying to get into "Highlander" culture is equally, if not even more, stupid. Modern day Scotland is a care bit different from the "traditional" fantasy of a Scottish past. Also, Highlander is a terrible movie and I cringed so hard every time it was used during the whole "will Scotland leave the UK" debate.

Yep. Which is why it's extra extra silly for an American who has very little knowledge or understanding of Scotland's history to go full Braveheart and act like this is totally what people do in the Old Country.

Haha indeed, but that is a problem in Scotland as well. the lot of them need to get over it.

They used Highlander? I'm less offended by that than by Braveheart, but far more weirded out.

It's interesting because there's a lot less of that in Australia, I don't know why. There's still some "St Paddy's Day" fetishisation (though tracing a specifically Irish ancestor is not that important to participate) but if you're northern Euro white, you're "Australian" pretty much.

Have you lived in both Australia and the US? I live in the US and your description of what it's like in Australia sounds fairly similar to what I've experienced where I live. Maybe it's a regional thing (where I live there are a lot of actual immigrants), but I've really never had much of this talk-about-your-heritage experience. People who were born here and whose parents were born here call themselves Americans.

Haven't lived in the US, just going on what I hear about "Irish five generations back". Interesting that it's not everywhere.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3175 ]

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HIGHLANDER!?

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