[ SECRET POST #3181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I get the feeling a lot of "Bond must be black" is a bunch of Americans projecting American race relations onto other countries.

Everywhere is black vs white, right?

Right?

[(Anonymous)]

I think I'm going to add "Someone in a race-based conversation on the Internet complaining about Americans projecting American race relations onto other societies" to my list of things that I'm just going to completely ignore on the Internet, because it seems both completely inevitable and kind of pointless in the abstract way that it's usually used.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not complaining, I'm American. I'm pointing out we do it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's a useful comment when it's so abstracted from the specifics of how the race relationships in question are influencing the conversation and how they specifically differ from the race relationships of the other country.

What specific features of the Bond conversation, in your mind, are driven by the distinctive characteristics of race in America?

[(Anonymous)]

White vs Black, the American mentality that forgets Hispanic/Latino exist unless they're Mexican and Asians more or less don't exist, as opposed to White vs NonWhite/Other. The assumption that black people are the biggest minority in Britain. The assumption that they get most of the racism directed at them.

I have no personal opinion about Bond, but all of that is relevant, if you're talking about positive representations, racism, and who is best for the role of a nonwhite Bond.

[(Anonymous)]

I completely get what you're saying, anon, and I agree. As a west coast Canadian, for example, our biggest minority group is Asians, particularly East Asians. Meanwhile, our most discriminated against minority group is First Nations. So following the seeming logic of this whole Bond debate, from a west coast Canadian's perspective Bond should either be East Asian or First Nations. But hey, Bond ISN'T Canadian! So naturally, I'm not going to argue that everybody involved in the making of the franchise should act like he is.

Yet the argument that comes up over and over again is that Bond should be Black, and I think it makes complete sense to suggest that - as you say - Americans are projecting American race relations onto other countries.


Personally, I don't particularly want to see Bond as a PoC or as a woman. To me, Bond is a white dude. What I would LOVE to see, as always, is waaay more important, complex original characters who are PoCs and/or women. But where Bond is concerned, I'm far more interested in seeing his character explored in other ways. I really like the way Craig's Bond explored Bond's grit and his ruthlessness, and the relationship between his ruthlessness and his capacity for caring. Particularly in the first two of the Craig films - the ones written by Paul Haggis, notably - I thought that Bond's character was often explored in a way that was less glorifying and more critical. Those films acknowledged him as ultimately "The Good Guy" while not necessarily taking as granted that he was actually a good person. I'm no Bond buff, so I could be wrong, but I don't think his character had ever really been adequately, non-perfunctorily, explored in that way before.

So personally, what I'd be interested in seeing in Bond's next permutation is a continued exploration of what kind of person Bond might be.

[(Anonymous)]

But it is true. Like when Americans were complaining about that Avril Levine Japanese music video being cultural appropriation. While Japanese were like, Lol. We love it.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen

I'm saying, just saying that American racial relations are different and that Americans tend to assume that other countries' race relations are analogous to American race relations is not in itself that useful of a thing to say, and also that it seems like people say it almost regardless of what the conversation looks like

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's very relevant if the OP of the secret is saying Bond should be South Asian, as South Asians aren't on most American anti-racists' radar.

[(Anonymous)]

Japanese nationals don't have the same relationship to white people cultural appropriation and racism as those living in a white majority society. Japan has never been colonised in the way that many non-Western societies have, and aren't a first nations people. So it's a really different situation where they don't feel threatened on the whole by aspects of their culture fetishised and trivialised. In my experience anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

Japanese nationals in general don't have a good understanding of racism, period. Them not finding a video racist against them =/= it's not racist.

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't it directed by an actual Japanese producer? I mean there's a limit to how far you can stretch this. There were soooooo many bits in there that conform to how Japanese perceive foreigners and what kind of music videos are popular there.

[(Anonymous)]

It's pretty relevant to this discussion. Black Bond is pushed so strongly by American fans because American discussion of race relations skews very, very heavily towards Black vs White, often to the point of ignoring or erasing any other races or ethnicities. PoC, to most Americans, is synonymous with Black. They tend to apply this across the board, without really stopping to consider that hey, maybe the discussion is different here.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind black Bond but to me it's not much different from white Bond to be perfectly honest. Black people are all over Hollywood as good guys. So while I am not bothered by it, I do not really care either and don't feel like celebrating.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no personal horse in the race. I do think most of the people pushing for a black Bond are Americans doing it for representation for the sake of black Americans, who haven't thought about British race relations.

Representation is great no matter who it's of or for. I think OP has a point that should be considered too, and wonder if the people clamoring for a black Bond have given it thought. These two aren't mutually exclusive opinions.

[(Anonymous)]

it's a little bit like the recent (ish) debate about Lily Evans could have been non-white. Yes, she could have been but statistically given the ethnic make-up of the UK and surname Evans...she probably was white.

[(Anonymous)]

That's pretty much my read of the situation too.