[ SECRET POST #3181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [WARNING for rape]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

a. The Germans had already surrendered.

b. Dropping an a-bomb in the center of Europe had a far likelier chance of doing damage to surrounding allied countries, as opposed to the relatively more contained Japanese Islands.

c. Russia needed to know America had that kind of weaponry at its disposal.

d. America's chief enemy in WW2 was Japan. They attacked Pearl Harbor, they brought us into the war. We suffered hideous losses to the Japanese that are comparable to what the Nazis took out of the Russians. If the war, for America, had been about Germany only, we would have gotten in there sooner and probably ended the war years earlier by supplying reinforcements. You do know we only really got in there in '43, yes?

[(Anonymous)]

'42 actually

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

The European allies suffered devastating defeats in the few years they were on their own in any case. I'm not saying America won the war for Europe (although I will happily say we won it for WW1), but we supplied desperately needed aid, and an earlier entrance into the European Theater would very likely have ended the war sooner.

To add to my above post:

e. THERE WAS NO A-BOMB WHEN GERMANY SURRENDERED. Testing only started a month or so later.

[(Anonymous)]

although I will happily say we won it for WW1

No. Noooooooooo. Nope. Nuh-uh.

[(Anonymous)]

The Japanese had already surrendered as well...

[(Anonymous)]

No they hadn't, don't be so fucking ignorant.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, Japan was totally down to surrender! America was very good at cracking Japanese codes, and had intercepted several diplomatic messages sent to other countries where Japan expressed the terms of their conditions, with the only major term being that the emperor remain in power (Which would have been necessary to ensure a peaceful transition to foreign government for the Japanese people). Harry Truman ignored these messages and prolonged the war until the completion of the atomic bomb so that it could be used. More on that later.

In his 1965 study, Atomic Diplomacy: Hiroshima and Potsdam (pp. 107, 108), historian Gar Alperovitz writes:
Although Japanese peace feelers had been sent out as early as September 1944 (and [China’s] Chiang Kai-shek had been approached regarding surrender possibilities in December 1944), the real effort to end the war began in the spring of 1945. This effort stressed the role of the Soviet Union …
In mid-April [1945] the [US] Joint Intelligence Committee reported that Japanese leaders were looking for a way to modify the surrender terms to end the war. The State Department was convinced the Emperor was actively seeking a way to stop the fighting.

Japan was actually on it’s last legs, and wouldn’t have been able to fight much longer at all, thanks to effective embargoes, blockades, and traditional bombing. They had all but run out of fuel, ammunition, and other war supplies.

Admiral William Leahy – the highest ranking member of the U.S. military from 1942 until retiring in 1949, who was the first de facto Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who was at the center of all major American military decisions in World War II – wrote (pg. 441):
It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.

They were selected because they were large cities where the bombs would have the most devastating affect.
President Truman steadfastly defended his use of the atomic bomb, claiming that it “saved millions of lives” by bringing the war to a quick end. Justifying his decision, he went so far as to declare: “The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians.”

This was a preposterous statement. In fact, almost all of the victims were civilians, and the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (issued in 1946) stated in its official report: “Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen as targets because of their concentration of activities and population.”

General George Marshall agreed:
Contemporary documents show that Marshall felt “these weapons might first be used against straight military objectives such as a large naval installation and then if no complete result was derived from the effect of that, he thought we ought to designate a number of large manufacturing areas from which the people would be warned to leave–telling the Japanese that we intend to destroy such centers….”

As the document concerning Marshall’s views suggests, the question of whether the use of the atomic bomb was justified turns … on whether the bombs had to be used against a largely civilian target rather than a strictly military target—which, in fact, was the explicit choice since although there were Japanese troops in the cities, neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki was deemed militarily vital by U.S. planners. (This is one of the reasons neither had been heavily bombed up to this point in the war.) Moreover, targeting [at Hiroshima and Nagasaki] was aimed explicitly on non-military facilities surrounded by workers’ homes.

[(Anonymous)]

hissss facts hissss

[(Anonymous)]

No. They so, so hadn't. They were so far from surrendering that even shortly before the bombs, when they knew they were going to be invaded in some way, they were preparing for an all-out defense. They had absolutely no intention of surrendering any time soon if it hadn't been for the bombs.

[(Anonymous)]

They keep teaching American kids that the atomic bombs were actually good lol

[iggy]

In my twelve years of American primary schooling, I was never taught this. This isn't to say that American history isn't whitewashed, but the a bomb was never taught to us as anything but shitty.

[tabaqui]

Yeah, no, sorry. American officials, having long since broken Japan's secret codes, knew from intercepted messages that the country's leaders were seeking to end the war on terms as favorable as possible. Details of these efforts were known from decoded secret communications between the Foreign Ministry in Tokyo and Japanese diplomats abroad.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

[(Anonymous)]

The surrender was tied to conditions that were disregarded by the US and as such, Japan was not willing to surrender. And since one of the conditions was "no occupation of Japan", they did prepare to defend against the upcoming invasion. So we're both right, yet both wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

No. In fact, the whole reason for the bombs is that the Japanese still refused to surrender even when they really, really, really should have given their position.

[tabaqui]

They hadn't surrendered, but they *had* considered it, but the US demands were too much for them, because they allowed no part of what Japan wanted. A 'totally capitulate to everything we say' kind of surrender, which the Emperor couldn't agree to because his military wouldn't.

But Japan was trying to end the war when we bombed them, and Russian, in particular, knew it, and was blocking them.

[(Anonymous)]

No, see, the black and white fact is that them lowly japs were just Too Proud and therefore throwing nuclear bombs at families to send a message to the USSR "save American lives" is totally justifiable.

[tabaqui]

HA, yeah. Bombing the shit out of thousands upon thousands of civilians with the justification of 'saving American lives' is, basically, the American way.

Just for reference, you might be interested......

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah…um…considering doesn't really matter, though.

Throughout WWI, ALL of the powers "considered" ending the war at various points. They didn't until 1918. Instead, they just sent millions more innocents to die.

So "considering" counts for jack shit.

[(Anonymous)]

We suffered hideous losses to the Japanese that are comparable to what the Nazis took out of the Russians.

Did you just

compare the 27,000,000 Soviet deaths, the majority of which were civilians (10,922,000 soldier deaths) which was a good chunk of each Soviet country's total population, to the 400,000 soldier US deaths, which was 0.32% to the US population?

[(Anonymous)]

Only speaking about the army, yes. Russia wouldn't have lost nearly so many soldiers if their strategy hadn't been "choke them out with our dead bodies", and I attribute more deaths on the Russian side to the Russians than to the Nazis.

(And I'm invoking N-Word privileges here, I am Russian.)

[(Anonymous)]

TIL 10,922,000 soldier deaths are "comparable" to 400,000

[(Anonymous)]

N-Word privileges

Please stop

[(Anonymous)]

They attacked Pearl Harbor, they brought us into the war. We suffered

I am Russian

so_what_is_the_truth_oprah.gif

[(Anonymous)]

That is legitimately just wrong.

Like, it's just factually inaccurate. Sorry.

[(Anonymous)]

USSR is not Russia. Other Soviet countries fought too.

- a little reminder.