[ SECRET POST #3183 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3183 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 047 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

So?

I've come to the point that most of the blowback against Mary Sues is pretty sad. Yeah, people's OCs can be underwritten or badly handled in countless different ways, leading to a bad fic.

A: Sturgeon's Law reminds us that this is not exclusive to self-inserts, and that tons of everything is complete crap.

B: It makes the writers, many of whom are young or are trying to learn new ways of expressing their ideas, or find something to be proud of in themselves, happy.

Mostly it just starts to sound like 'hey, screw dumb girls for writing stories about their fantasies.' You know?

So I get where you're coming from, but mostly it doesn't matter imo.

[(Anonymous)]

Mary Sues are to fandom as pumpkin spice is to the Internet in general, imo

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

and I drank three of those suckers the week they came back to 'Bucks, not a single regret.

[(Anonymous)]

hell yeah anon

live your best life

[sabotabby]

:)

[diet_poison]

And I don't get why people hate on PSLs. They're delicious.

[(Anonymous)]

Just to be clear here, the point of the analogy was that both pumpkin spice lattes and Mary Sues are fine, even if they're not everyone's favorite thing, and maybe 'basic' or whatever.

So, I agree with you! Yay!

[a_potato]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same. It used to bother me a lot more when I was younger and had this idea in my head of What Fic Should Be, but now I'm pretty much like...write what you want to write. This stuff is supposed to be for fun, after all.

[(Anonymous)]

Mostly it just starts to sound like 'hey, screw dumb girls for writing stories about their fantasies.' You know?

This is how this sort of criticism has been reading to me a lot lately, too. Which is irritating.

And adding to your reasons why young writers might write those kinds of stories, I'd say it's a good way to learn how to craft characters-it'd make sense that you start out with one that's similar to (or exactly like) yourself, and tweak it here and there for the story. Good practice for when you get older, and continue to learn how to craft characters that might well be inspired by you or people you know, but which can still stand as individual characters in their own right.

Yeah. If people don't want to read Mary-Sue stories, then they can just hit the back button. Problem solved.

[dani_phantasma]

The way people react rather cruelly and violently to anything Mary Sue because of this often bothers me.

Those that claim that they're helping people to write better can save it. Taking an accusatory attitude and mocking them will do nothing to help them write better, and will probably only make things worse. It's like people who think they are "helping" fat people get healthier by mocking their weight.

The "this is bad and you should feel bad" approach doesn't help, and more often than not I read it as an attempt to spin dickery in some kind of 'helpful' way.

Also when people flame and then pull the "they shouldn't have put it on the internet" argument comes off disturbingly like people trying to "teach" younger people not to share things, or they'll be ripped into. "Welcome to the internet" is little more than "I'll do it because I can!".

Not saying every one has to be nice on the internet, but I wish people wouldn't try to spin it as "i'm really helping them" or absolving themselves of responsibility because 'hurr durr it's the internet'.If one must be a dick, at least accept/take responsibility for it.

[(Anonymous)]

Also when people flame and then pull the "they shouldn't have put it on the internet" argument comes off disturbingly like people trying to "teach" younger people not to share things, or they'll be ripped into.

Agreed. Anytime someone says they shouldn't put something on the internet all I can think is, "Yeah, and you didn't have to keep reading it."

I completely agree with your rant about people being dicks in general. Criticism is obviously good and valuable for writers. And no, it won't be pretty or sugarcoated. But there is a VAST difference between actual tough, honest criticism and people just being flat out jerks, and too many people do not seem to know the difference.

[dani_phantasma]

Yeah.

Also to be honest, the fact is the younger people are going to be more "oversensitive" than grown adults (I live with a 12 year old, I know this very well), and surrounding sound advice with too much snark and mockery likely to put people on the defense is honestly a dumb move on the reviewer's part. Like if you're being overtly accusatory in your criticism, that's going to get someone defensive.

Rather than complain about how people can't take a bunch of snarking and barbs about how this and that is "lol stupid" and "Mary Sue , kill it with fire", why can't people just rethink how they say things.

I think that the internet and the way people communicate on the internet is a very different set of social rules than in 'meatspace'. New writers won't be used to that, and where they're coming from a bunch of rudeness is probably shocking and offensive.

Like I'm not denying that some people can be oversensitive but when a person's first approach is very accusing and sarcastic, they'll never know if the person might be otherwise receptive if the advice were given differently.

[(Anonymous)]

Excellent point about younger people reacting differently from adults, too. And besides that, whether a 12 year old can handle the snark and rudeness well or not shouldn't even matter, because if you're an adult, shouldn't you have better things to do with your time than pick on preteens/teenagers and make them feel like shit to begin with? The 12 year old may or may not be oversensitive, but they're still more mature in the end than the supposed adult who can't seem to act their age.

You're also right that tone can be VERY tough to tell sometimes over the internet, too, and even if a person means well, and snark is just their particular way of communicating, like you said, not everyone knows that.

I know that some people have that rule that they don't say things in cyberspace they wouldn't say to someone's face, and I think that should apply to everyone's internet conduct. We may not be able to see who we're talking to, but there's still real people on the other side of the screen and they should be treated the way you'd treat anyone you interacted with in person. I don't get why that's that hard for some people to do.

[dani_phantasma]

"You're also right that tone can be VERY tough to tell sometimes over the internet, too, and even if a person means well, and snark is just their particular way of communicating, like you said, not everyone knows that. "

Hell,I misread comments online every other day. It's become a habit for me to show something to my friends and be like "am I the only one bugged by this" or "am I reading this wrong?" before replying.

I think a lot of people have gotten used to a certain amount of freedom from social rules of politeness online, and start to take it for granted.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm in the midst of writing a series and, among other things, the fact that I am agonising over introducing some OCs and whether they'll be seen as flat, derivative, and unnecessary pretty (this goes for the plot as well) much guarantees that it'll never see the light of day.

Insecure writer is insecure as fuq.

I dunno if this will help but.....

[dani_phantasma]

I honestly think a lot of people are too quick too judge whether an OC is unnecessary. I think as long as they're a part of the plot or provide important support they're fine.

I tend to believe stories are very adaptive and can possibly work with or without a lot of stuff, but that doesn't mean the stuff isn't important, it would just result in a different story.

[(Anonymous)]

Mostly it just starts to sound like 'hey, screw dumb girls for writing stories about their fantasies.' You know?

^^^^ THIS.

Also, I'm at the stage where a lot of the hate-ons for OCs and Mary Sues and sporking and all of that... it just sounds so juvenile to me. Mainly because that's the sort of thing I used to do when I was a teenager, and I thought I was oh-so-clever and a better writer than everyone else for it.

If people wanna have their fun, why hate on them? It's fanfic, for god's sake. Most of the people writing this stuff are just teenagers; they're not doing anything wrong.