[ SECRET POST #3212 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3212 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 027 secrets from Secret Submission Post #459.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[raspberryrain]

Normally, if people are producing creative work, they have a right to be paid for it. If you don't want to pay fanfic writers, then what? Should they not write fic at all, or work for free?

[(Anonymous)]

And then the copyright owners have a right to sue this people.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, if they are writing original fiction then yes, they deserve to be paid for it, but being paid to write fanfiction about characters that belong to someone else is actually a breach of copyright law and is illegal, so... yes. They should write it for free. Receiving money for it is literally against the law.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Like, what even is this question? This person is acting like fic writers writing for free is some kind of massive, unreasonable imposition, when it's actually THE THING WE'VE ALL CONTENTEDLY BEEN DOING SINCE THE BEGINNING.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course fan writers should work for free. Not just that, they shouldn't even want comments, because that's entitled and makes them automatically bad!

[(Anonymous)]

... you can't equate wanting comments for fanfiction and anting PAYMENT for fanfiction. One is all very well and good. The other is ILLEGAL!

[(Anonymous)]

For some reason, a writer wanting comments is judged harshly and if they want to get paid it's even worse ("BUT IT'S ILLEGAL!"), but selling fanart is also illegal, yet most people support it.

And all those "support artist by rebloging/something else" posts on tumblr are always supported by most people too, even by the ones complaining about entitled writers that dare to want comments.

The double standards can't be more obvious.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - It annoys me, too. As a writer, you can't charge money for your fanfic because that's BAD even though artists do it all the time. Because you see, writing isn't REAL work, like art! Or whatever. Also, you can't want or like reviews because that's also bad. You shouldn't taint your pure, noble Art by accepting filthy lucre OR praise, otherwise you're an entitled author.

But if I want to commission a poster size drawing of Loki getting his salad tossed by Thor, hey man, that's cool.

[(Anonymous)]

Grown up. Just because artist are doing something wrong doesn't mean that you writes should do it too.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god something's ILLEGAL! You have won this moral argument!

[(Anonymous)]

I wasn't aware this was an argument about morals. I was just stating a fact.

[ketita]

There's a huge difference between being hired by somebody to do a job, and asking people to fund your hobby which is based on copyright infringement.
I'm all for fanfic, but I don't think you're presenting the situation fairly.

[raspberryrain]

What I see is that fanfic writers devalue their own work and inflate the economic value of the canon by producing so much work for free. And not just for free--lots of writers and artists post work online to be seen publicly--but insisting that they can never take money for it.

And then, when some writers realise that they have put in enough work to have something publishable, and they "file off the serial numbers" to publish it, those writers get attacked. Look at how much venom was directed at Cassandra Clare when she turned pro.

Fandom teaches writers that they should be amateurs and work for free. I don't think that's good for writing as an industry.

[(Anonymous)]

Cassandra Clare was about a lot of other things than just filing off the serial numbers though. Like plagiarism and cyber bullying.

[raspberryrain]

I stand corrected. I wasn't in the same fandoms as she was at the time, so I didn't really remember what the whole story was.

[(Anonymous)]

If you want some old wank it's interesting to read up on.
http://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Cassandra_Claire_Plagiarism_Debacle

[(Anonymous)]

Not to mention laptopgate.

[(Anonymous)]

The venom against Cassandra Clare when she turned pro was not due to the fact that she "filed off the serial numbers" from her own fanfic and published it. The venom was due to the fact she was a plagiarizer and thus should not be rewarded for that.

I have no issue if someone takes a work that is out of copyright and writes something for it, wanting to get published and paid. I have no issue if someone does parody of canon and wants to get published and paid. I have no issue if something is so completely off from canon that "filing off the serial numbers" and publishing as original fiction is possible so the person can be paid. I do, however, have an issue with someone taking someone else's characters and setting and plot set ups to write fanfic and expecting to get paid. The only way to do that legally and morally is to get themselves hired as a tie-in novel writer. It is not their IP, and thus it is not their right to get paid to work with it.

"Fandom teaches writers that they should be amateurs and work for free."
No. It teaches writers that fanfic is for practicing and honing their skills, but if they want to be professional and paid, they need to come up with their own worlds, their own characters, and their own ideas. Which several of them have done.

[sarillia]

So you think the moral standard is the same as the legal standard?

[(Anonymous)]

Look, if you want to stick to copyright laws and all it's fine, but saying first that publishing something based on an out of copyright is something you're ok with and later that "if they want to be professional and paid, they need to come up with their own worlds, their own characters, and their own ideas" it's rather hypocritical.

[(Anonymous)]

Cassandra Clare's venom was because she was a thief, not because she turned pro. I know of several fanwriters who decided to write original stories and they all received a lot of support from their previous fans.

Now, if we are talking about people like Stephenie Meyer and Twilight, that's another story. In tha tcase fandom teaches writers than writing a fanfic and the publishing it changing the names of the characters and pretending that it's an original story is wrong. And that's good because fandom is right, stealing another author's characters is wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't you mean 50 Shades? Twilight was original fic...

[ketita]

That's more because Cassandra Clare had MILES of drama behind her already, and was kind of blatant about it. Plenty of other ficauthors have turned pro without drama - like Sarah Rees Brennan and Naomi Novik.

I... really don't think that's what fandom teaches people. What it DOES teach is that if you're going to use other people's property, you shouldn't get paid because it's THEIRS. (and for the record, I'm not really in favor of fanart commissions either). Every writer is free to write their original works and do what they want with them. I have no idea where you see this devaluing of work.
I'm sorry you don't like copyright law, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm curious, what do you think of people who commission something for a character created in an established world? The world isn't theirs but technically the character/idea of a character is (or should be)?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god, that's not why people don't like Cassandra Clare.