fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3227 ]

[ SECRET POST #3227 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3227 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Mary McDonnell, Battlestar Galactica, Major Crimes]

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03.

[Deadly Premonition]

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04.

[The Walking Dead, Glenn Rhee]

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05.

[Bill Skarsgård]

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06.

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07.

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08. http://i.imgur.com/LAq54d4.jpg
[link for random penis]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #461.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

He's got kind of a point. It's not anti-men. It's anti toxic masculinity.

And seriously - masculinity is promoted and pushed on people and pushed as being the best thing ever to a ridiculous degree. I honestly find it boring, but people expect that all men want to be masculine and everyone attracted to men is attracted to masculine men. People harass men who aren't masculine enough, men harass women to prove they are masculine enough... just give it a break already. If you want to be masculine, fine. But don't shove it down everyone's throat and don't act like being masculine makes you superior to women and less masculine men.

everyone attracted to men is attracted to masculine men.

well, i mean... let's not lie to ourselves here

Well this is not technically a given.

no, i agree, it's not technically a given. but if we're talking in broad social generalizations...

I mean, I just don't want us pretending that a preference for masculinity is somehow foisted on women by the patriarchy

Lots of people (men and women) are very attracted to masculinity. Let's not fucking lie about that. Let's not pretend that doesn't exist.

Nobody is pretending that some people aren't attracted to masculinity.

OP was saying people pretend that everyone who likes men likes masculine men and doesn't like nonmasculine men, which is also wrong.

OP implies that they think that because of how it's promoted and pushed on people. I don't think that's true. People think it's true because to a large extent it is true.

Nowhere did they imply that, imo.

"people expect that all men want to be masculine and everyone attracted to men is attracted to masculine men"

An expectation isn't promoted and pushed on people, it's an assumption people make which is often wrong.

In the sentence before they talk about it being promoted and pushed on people.

And it's not often wrong. It is occasionally wrong.

Nah, not saying people aren't attracted to it. The obviously are. I just don't think an attraction to men equals an attraction to (performed) masculinity by definition, though there is obviously a large overlap.

The problem is that I think it simplifies the problem of masculinity in a false way if you simply pretend that this preference just, like, doesn't exist. The fact that a lot of people orient their lives around it and a lot of people like and are attracted to those things is why it's such an intractable thing.

I hope I'm understanding what you're saying right, but...I can't help but think that some of those preferences ARE cultural and taught, though.

Like, if we're talking about the physical aspect of it - muscles, certain patterns in body hair, being on average larger than women etc...I DO believe that those preferences are for a large part innate, because our ancestors selected for those (desirable) traits for centuries.

However it gets so much trickier when you throw things like behavior or dress into the mix. I think there's a lot of things we associate with "masculinity" or "femininity" that aren't really linked to it by definition, but are also attractive to people.

I hope that made sense.

No one is pretending that preference doesn't exist. You seem to have trouble parsing the phrase "not everyone."

I think the phrase is being used in a way that implies that more people fall into "not everyone" than actually do.

The fact that you keep arguing your point despite the fact that no one is disagreeing with you suggests you might have some sort of personal issue with this. I suggest you get over this instead of trying to argue with people who, again, are not actually disagreeing with you.

The fact that you keep arguing your point despite the fact that no one is disagreeing with you suggests you might have some sort of personal issue with this.

Probably.

Who is "us" anyway?

I'm not "pretending" that no one is attracted to masculinity, or that it's "foisted on women by the patriarchy" (seriously, did I say ANYTHING like that?).

But it seems to be assumed that masculine men are always more attractive to ALL people who like men (not just women). That if a man isn't really masculine, no one will be attracted to him.

And I've been basically told that I'm just "trying to be different" to look better than other people for expressing attraction to men who aren't manly. I find that annoying.

None of that is saying that no one is really attracted to masculinity. It's saying people who are attracted to masculinity don't need to act like all men should try to fit their preference, and they don't need to act like other people CAN'T be attracted to less masculine men.

Also this, yeah.

My boyfriend is shorter than me, isn't muscular, or athletic...he's basically this geeky guy with glasses.

And I've been asked (on multiple occasions) if he's my type, and then met with surprise if I answer yes.

The expectation IS annoying.

Not to mention that when I was single there have been cases of people trying to set me up with dudes who were really, really not my type.

All those masculine boy bands. All of them.

Which are really only aimed at young teenage girls. Once you're an adult, you're expected to like "real" men with masculine presentation.

People make fun of the boy band guys for not being masculine enough, and they make fun of girls who like them, too.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3227 ]

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