[ SECRET POST #3237 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3237 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #463.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously, I don't care.

Why the hell should I apologize for liking what I like? Jesus Christ, men get to say "well 1 woman is hot so 1 + 1 = 2 is hotter. Duh!" and everyone just accepts it. They watch two women with nails that are so unrealistically long they make me cringe fuck each other, but they don't see them as people. They don't care about their lives, their dreams, their emotions, etc.

I've observed that, at least among slash fans, only about 20% of fic is explicit. And even then, slash fans will still write these men with emotions, with hopes, with dreams, with stories of their own. They're not reduced to fucking blowup dolls.

So honestly...I don't care. Cry more.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, it's obviously because you have internalized misogyny and can't truly relate to femininity without deep self-loathing.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with reducing people to blow up dolls for the purposes of porn.

If that bleeds into real life and how you treat real people, that's when it becomes an issue.

[(Anonymous)]

this is a good point and reminds me of the embarrassing slash fans waving signs featuring slash fanart saying "let my gays marry" at gay marriage rallies

[(Anonymous)]

There's nothing wrong with porn being id-tastic, I get that.

But why do women get picked on so, so much for this?

Jesus Christ, women will lovingly write thousands of words describing the emotions, the backstory, the longing these characters face while men will just watch two women fucking (because let's be honest, lesbian porn directed at men does not have any kind of plot or character development).

And guess who gets called out?

I agree that if you treat people in real life that way then you need to stop, no ifs ands or buts.

[(Anonymous)]

you make good points armin

[(Anonymous)]

Sounds like you need to cry more. Want me to go get a pacifier and some baby blankets for you, anon? Maybe change that dirty shit-filled diaper of yours, too?

[(Anonymous)]

Go for it. That's all your fit to do anyway is wipe my dirty ass.

[blitzwing]

Well we know what kind of fanfiction you like to read.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. However, if you're fully immersed in fandom and generally avoid mainstream porn you won't have that comparison.

Even I can totally see how it can get annoying for a gay/bi dude, because while slash characters are more human, some of the tropes turn it into self-indulgent feeling porn.

It depends on the quality of the writing, but let's be honest, that topping of exaggerated angst for example is how we enjoy the smut more.

[(Anonymous)]

I just hate how...when gay men complain about women writing slash...there's always this weird undercurrent of how "women don't get gay men" as though we're not all human. As though we don't all have the same emotions. As though, somehow, these gay men who are complaining believe that they feel things that women are incapable of feeling or act in ways women are incapable of acting. Which pisses me off.

When it comes to the more physical side, like actual sex acts, yeah women might get stuff wrong. But published het writers frequently fuck up writing heterosexual sex. It's a common problem. I don't see why we need to single out one group for bad sex scenes.

[(Anonymous)]

I also hate it if it's that macho complain that any expression of homosexuality needs to be "masc4masc" stuff. That's imo more harmful. But to an extend it's true: women don't get every aspect of being a gay man.

And sometimes they just don't make enough effort to fill in the bit that they don't get. Many women or girls won't attempt to write a guy who was socialized (for better or worse) as male.
They write emotional self-inserts. The result is of course human, but it is rather obvious to me when it happens. For example, a grown man probably won't squee in certain social settings, or he might feel self-conscious about it.

[(Anonymous)]

lol it's so true about the masc4masc shit, and the idea that gay men can't have feelings or express themselves ever cause Real Gay Men don't do that, and no one can have a preference for positions because everyone switches!!!1

/a gay man

[(Anonymous)]

"For example, a grown man probably won't squee in certain social settings, or he might feel self-conscious about it."

See...this is the kind of thing that bothers me because I absolutely DO know men who will squee and loudly get excited in public and I also know very, very quiet and stoic women who would rather lop off their own arms than make a scene.

It just seems like you're attributing certain characteristics to women and certain to men and that seems...rather sexist to me, to be honest.

Unless women are writing a stereotype of gay men, it just feels like women are being attacked for not writing gender roles stereotypically enough.

da

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it reminds me of a popular old way to criticize canon yaoi with the "seme/uke" dynamic, which was "well um why don't you just read het instead of this because the bottom guy is basically a girl like you could give him boobs and it wouldn't make any difference uwu"

[(Anonymous)]

It's still more unusual than not. We live in a sexist society and people will act in a certain way in spite of it or because it. Most fictional worlds reflect that.

Obviously it depends on the character in question. But there are plenty of male characters that feel self-conscious about their masculinity, or have to face opposition if they act a certain way.

tbh pretending that sexism and gender role stereotypes don't exist won't make them less relevant for people and therefore the characterization of fictional characters.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

if something is ooc then it's ooc, being a typically "masculine" or "feminine" attribute doesn't factor into it

Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

yah this

Re: +1

[(Anonymous)]

geez. gender stereotypes aren't voldemort.

not calling the factor by its name won't make it less of a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

> homosexuality needs to be "masc4masc" stuff

you just reminded me that it's been a long time since I last read 'Cockrub Warriors of Mars'...

[(Anonymous)]

OH GOD! I HAD FORGOT THAT MISOGYNISTIC MESS! And the extremely creepy (but entertaining) "Personal stories" there...

"Our dads were locked in a mortal sex combat." - http://www.man2manalliance.org/crw/fiction/tagteam.html

[(Anonymous)]

As though we don't all have the same emotions. As though, somehow, these gay men who are complaining believe that they feel things that women are incapable of feeling or act in ways women are incapable of acting.

Well, there is a popular theory that male brains are different from female brains, and that men feel differently about sex and romance than women do. If you ascribe to this theory, of course you'd think women writers don't "get" how men think/feel.

[(Anonymous)]

But that "theory" is wrong, so if you ascribe to it and use it as an argument you're also wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol no it isn't. Look at any relatively recent neuroscience or cognitive psychology textbook.

[blitzwing]

If you ascribe to this theory, of course you'd think women writers don't "get" how men think/feel.

No, not necessarily. You can believe that there tends to be certain differences in male and female brains, without extrapolating that to a huge group of people and generalizing entire genders.