[ SECRET POST #3237 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3237 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #463.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, let's start then:

What do you mean by fetishized?

Do you mean that a woman writes a gay relationship as stereotypes? Because if that's what you mean then I agree that's wrong. But I truly don't see much of this at all in fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but generally, a straight woman can't fetishize a heterosexual relationship because heterosexuality isn't a fetish for her. A gay man can't fetishize gay relationships because gay attraction isn't a fetish for him, but it is for straight women.

[kallanda_lee]

You realize that technically sex of any kind can't, by definition, be a fetish, right?

A fetish is specifically something normally non-sexual that gets turned sexual in our brain (like certain clothes, or spanking, or whatever).

But sexual characteristics (genitals, breasts, secondary sexual characteristics) and the act of sex (by one, two of more people) are never actual fetishes, because it's *normal* for humans to be aroused by sex - yes, even sex that does not correlate with their sexual orientation.

I mean, I know fandom and sj circles love the word, but it's just plain wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

SJ circles say breasts are a fetish too. They're not sexual, they've just been sexualized so widely that we think they're sexual. Breasts are for feeding babies. Enlightened non-Euro cultures that don't have breast taboos think you're a baby if you like breasts, lol!

[(Anonymous)]

What do you mean "sj circles"? This actually has some merit.

[(Anonymous)]

Only SJ circles say it that way. To discuss the merit in it, you have to accommodate the difference between breasts and other fetishes, which is that they're a fetish taught to everyone by society, not a random thing to be inexplicably aroused by. SJs don't do that, instead pretending that everyone who likes breasts is a freak (and a straight man, because remembering lesbians and bi girls/guys creates the paradox of an oppressed group being problematic about something)

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, horseshit. My breasts are certainly sexual. I feel sorry for any woman whose aren't.

[(Anonymous)]

She looks at gay men the same way straight men look at two gay women: something to get off to in some way. She doesn't look at them as characters first, but their potential to fuck.

Signed, a lesbian.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you think that it is possible for someone to write those gay men as characters first, not purely as something to get off to?

Second, do you think that fandom in practice ever does this?

[(Anonymous)]

Respect the characters dammit! Characters have feelings too!

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's possible. But there's a marked difference in how the characters are written. See: if I could drag and drop any character and only change a few minor things into your fic, you probably don't care as much about the character as you say you do and you care more about how gay they are.

As well, there's how it creeps into vocabulary. I don't like being othered by people as a lesbian--treated as if my relationships are there to be pleasing. And some people don't think they do this, but they do.

I've seen plenty of straight girls who DON'T fetishize gay men. But there are also plenty that DO.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for the response!

If you wouldn't mind, could you go into a little more depth on this:

As well, there's how it creeps into vocabulary. I don't like being othered by people as a lesbian--treated as if my relationships are there to be pleasing. And some people don't think they do this, but they do.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just not sure I quite see what you mean.

[(Anonymous)]

SA - specifically in terms of what you have in mind in terms of it creeping into the vocabulary, sorry, should have been clearer

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say it's any specific terms but it's more how it's talked about? Like it'll accidentally come across as if it only really exists for someone's pleasure. Even when they're talking about real people, they'll maybe get a bit too into it where they wouldn't for any other kind of relationship, or the people involved always, ALWAYS will hit on what the person themselves finds attractive. There's no deviating from that, so it's easier to catch it in someone you know.

Basically, if you get uncomfortable with how someone is referring to gay ships, it's probably for a reason if you normally wouldn't. I don't get creeped out, for example, about how some of my guy friends talk about lesbian ships because there's no real difference in how they treat them as opposed to how they treat their other ships (like m/m in the cases they ship it or m/f) and it just doesn't come across in any way that feels like it's objectifying the characters as nothing more than fap fuel.