fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3243 ]

[ SECRET POST #3243 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3243 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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08. [SPOILERS for Longmire]

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09. [SPOILERS for Arrow]

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10. [WARNING for dub-con/non-con]

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11. [WARNING for rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #463.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Yeah, I'm on the spectrum and I'd love a cure too.

(To be honest, I think people on the spectrum who don't, don't realize how much strain they put on people around them.)

Oh fuck you. Fuck you entirely.

It's perfectly fine to ant something. But it's downright fucking shitty to tell someone who doesn't want their entire mind changed that they should because of "the strain they put on everyone around them"

Fuck off with your "selfish" buullshit.

What about people who lose a limb and don't care to get a prosthetic. Should they be forced into it because of the strain their disability might put on people?

bet you still live with your parents

You didn't answer their question.

That's not an actual argument.

Why should certain disabled people be obligated to be "fixed" because they might be an inconvenience to people around them?

You're the one sounding self centered thinking there's something wrong with people who feel differently then you about bodily autonomy.

Because people have a right to not be inconvenienced. No one should be forced to sacrifce their time and money on taking care for an adult, when said adult has options that would allow them to take care for themselves.

DA

Are you denying that people who have mental health issues can stress their support network of family and friends most of who aren't professionally trained nor necessarily have the set of coping skills needed?

I heard a story once, way back, and it was posted publicly to LJ or DW, I forget which.

(Warning: somewhat long writeup follows, potential triggers possible)

This lady, when she was younger, her sister had some severe psychological issues from being abused (not going into details here). She would have absolute *screaming fits* every time she needed to be hospitalized (which was, I gather, unfortunately somewhat regular), and she withdrew to the point of only watching a VHS tape of The Wizard of Oz. Repeatedly, every day she was at home.

In short all this was rather stressful on all parties involved.

Well, one day the VHS tape finally broke and the movie froze up. And her sister went batshit fucking NUTS.

The lady in question confessed that her first emotion was an incredibly satisfying feeling of utter blissful Schadenfreude at knowing her sister wouldn't be hogging the TV set anymore.

I'm not saying mentally disabled people can't be stressful. I'm saying that people shouldn't expect someone to be "fixed" because they can be a strain.

People in general can be a strain. My younger sister is incredibly OCD about germs and shrieking at people for spreading them sometimes or lecturing people about wanting their hands. It puts a strain on us at times, but that doesn't mean I think my sister should be "fixed".

I had family friend whose kid was just an over energetic brat it caused a strain on the family and their patience, but that still doesn't mean the brother needs to go get lobotmized so he can be "tolerable".

People are still people even when they're difficult. I'm not comfortable with the idea of suggesting that people should just get cured of everything about them that might cause others stress. People should be treated like human beings and not objects.

NAYRT
The over-energetic brat of a kid is a bad example. Because that very much should be cured/fixed. And it doesn't need a lobotomy to do so. If a child has no underlying issues, there is no reason that proper parenting can't keep them from becoming a brat. If the child is a brat, then there is something wrong and it should be dealt with. As a teacher I am so fucking tired of all of the entitled brats that come through my classroom and all of the "boys will be boys" and "she's just so smart and special that she is bored" and other awful excuses that are given instead of people actually parenting their kids.

Alright

Well in just the same way, a person with a mild or manageable autistic spectrum disorder doesn't necessarily need to get rid of the autism or be cured of it in order to be dealt with.

I've met plenty of higher functioning people who are capable of living independently and communicating properly, are pretty successful in their jobs.

My point was about dealing with aspects of a person that might cause "strain" and over excessive approaches to dealing with that. There are many people on the autistic spectrum that deal and function in different ways and not every case is the kind of dramatic cases you see and hear about.

There are approaches to dealing with the "strain" in some other way than "fix their brain"/cure them.

And before you say that a cure to autism isn't the same as a lobotomy, how much do you know about how autism actually works? What parts of the brain it affects? What do you think it would take to completely rid the brain of autism?

I say this because a lot of proponent of a cure like to act like a cure would be as simple as a pill and as easily gotten rid of as a troublesome file on the computer. It's not that way at all.

"I've met plenty of higher functioning people who are capable of living independently and communicating properly, are pretty successful in their jobs."

Sure, and they're not the problem. The problem is the people who can't live alone, can't work and rely entire on their parents to fund their life. If the parents are rich and can provide for them then no problem, they do what they want. But the others? the parents/carers who are putting their life on hold to pay & care for them can definitely say "either get out and learn to live by yourself the way you are or get the cure and get out and learn to live by yourself".

Also, as sad as it is to say, their parents will, in all likelyhood, die before them. And then what? Who will be forced to look after them then? Their siblings? cousins? Basically, their counting on people's basic human decency to not leave them on the street because they're family no matter the financial, physical and mental strain they cause. And yes, that "entire world owes me" attitude is definitely selfish.

Same thing goes for the prosthesis situation you're so enamored of. If they can live independently without a prosthetic, then more power to them. If not getting a prosthetic means becoming entirely reliant on someone then they're selfish assholes.

Yeah, but when the mainstream idea of "tolerable" and "not stressing support networks" is "being exactly like me and completely neurotypical because no difference is allowed except cute and quirky things because I never once considered if I would be equipped to deal with anything other than a single straight, cis, neurotypical child" and the main stressor is that, oh, boo fucking hoo you can't watch TV? The problem isn't them.

The problem is that you can't handle a family member being anything other than straight, cis and neurotypical.

I mean, you never see people being complained about when they're a stress on their environs if they're cis, straight, etc. It's always, "Yeah, your family/friends are kind of shitty, you just need someone who understands you and is patient enough to be your support network!"

Wrong. In pretty much all that you say. But hey, carry on assuming everyone is against you.

I'm not autistic but I fully recognize how I've hurt other people because of my mental health issues and yes, I think it would have been selfish of me to continue to refuse to get help, because of that. Hell, it WAS selfish for the periods of time I did refuse it because it was hard/I was scared/I was lazy/whatever.

I understand that getting therapy is good. But there's a difference between "you should get therapy to deal with this" and "you need to get a cure and become un-autistic".

I'm talking about people who say the latter.

The anon seemed to be saying that people should want to be cured or they're selfish.

Or people realize they're a strain but also realize that, hey, that doesn't fucking matter.

By that logic, every depressed person should kill themselves so they stop being a strain for years and years because there is no cure for depression, just a band-aid that sometimes works.

I think it's more that ideally a depressed person would be referred to confidential counselling. I think part of the issue might be some executive dysfunction getting in the way too, though.

I've seen people on Tumblr admit they've driven friends away because their friends couldn't deal with their issues.

No, but depressed people SHOULD make an effort to get better in part because of how their illness affects everyone around them. Source: I WAS THERE.

And don't dare equate suicide as a response to depression with an actual cure for another illness.

ETA: to clarify, I was the person who badly strained several important relationships in my life because of my depression, not one of the people who was strained

Edited 2015-11-21 00:27 (UTC)

No, I don't think that's a good comparison. It's true that there's no magical cure for depression, but if there was (much like the secret where the OP is referring to a cure for autism) and you don't take it, well, that's your choice. But I think it's entirely reasonable to suggest that your support group shouldn't necessarily have to put up with the repercussions of your choice when there IS a cure you choose not to take.

In the context of the topic at hand, autism,

Autism is a developmental disorder of the brain. It has affected your brain as the brain developed. There is unlikely to be any coverall cure for autism that completely gets rid of all of it. Without significantly rearranging the brain.

There is no witch to flip. It's not simple. And even if it works it would probably leave behind other or more damaging side effects.

Surprise surprise some people aren't comfortable with entirely changing their brain.

If we're talking about THAT cure , then are you seriously suggesting that because someone chooses not to go through with is practically a lobotomy then they should get no sympathy when their condition causes problems?

That's frankly ridiculous.

Now if we're talking about therapy that's a different story. But therapy =/= cure.

Look, I understand there is no cure for autism but the OP is discussing a hypothetical situation and that is the context for my comments as well.

Even with a hypothetical situation, it's important to realize that considering how autism works and just how much of your brain, senses and thinking process it affects, there is still very good reason for autistic people not wanting a cure.

And if they can communicate and , understand, and give consent and live independently, they have every right in the world to refuse it.

I mean hell considering sensory issues are a part of it, getting a cure would require adjustment and depending on how old the person is may cause a huge freakout afterward. In adults anyway. Adults have already adjusted to their "settings" if you will. Nearly everything in their brain from they process they think in (in patterns and routines) to their social knowledge, to their senses would be changing.

Giving the cure to a child who has not yet finished developing would be no big deal but giving it to an adult who already has, that comes with a lot of complexity and ethical issues.

It's incredibly unrealistic to think just giving the cure would get rid of all the strain the adult autistic is 'causing" and not replace it with another kind of strain as their brain tries to adjust.

Does nobody else think about these things?

nayrt - I cannot figure out if you realize you're moving the goalposts of the argument in every new comment you make or if you genuinely do not understand why hypothetical means.

Basically, let's say a group of friends are sitting around talking about what it'd be like if unicorns really existed and whether or not they'd want one as a pet if they existed. (Which they don't, but hey! Hypothetical situation!) You're the person who tries to dominate the conversation by explaining what a biological impossibility unicorns are re: equine bone structure. Your friends try to explain that yeah, they know unicorns don't really exist, but for the sake of discussion, let's pretend they do and proceed from there. In response, you continue talking about biological impossibilities, the lack of fossil evidence for unicorns and you're super confused about why nobody else is seeing things your way.

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(Anonymous) - 2015-11-21 05:01 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2015-11-21 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2015-11-21 07:00 (UTC) - Expand

No, it's only you because you are the only perceptive, wise and far seeing person here.

Happy now?

*sigh*

But the context isn't "autism as it is exists in real life". The context is "an AU where there is a cure for autism". Per the secret. This is obviously a hot button issue for you, but fortunately, you'd be a lot less upset if you understood the difference between what you think the discussion is about and what the discussion is actually about, because they are two separate things.

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