fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3257 ]

[ SECRET POST #3257 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3257 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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03. [SPOILERS for Downton Abbey Season 6]

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04. [SPOILERS for Mockingjay Part 2]

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05. [SPOILERS for Undertale]

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06. [WARNING for rape]

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07. [WARNING for rape]

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08. [WARNING for child abuse]

[King Lear]

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09. [WARNING for abuse]

[Tales From the Borderlands]

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10. [WARNING for abuse, PTSD]

[Jessica Jones]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #465.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Ooooh, love it! I have one of these: The idea of gender being a social construct.

It's popular now, but I genuinely believe that as we learn more and more about gender through trans people getting into STEM and choosing to look into trans issues, I genuinely believe that we will find the idea of "Gender is just something people made up" to be factually incorrect and also will be looked back on as a transphobic myth.

I don't understand. Are you saying that future generations, after looking into transgender issues, will find that gender doesn't exist? So they'd invalidate trans people, or?

No, I'm saying that future generations, after looking into transgender issues, will find that gender does exist as more than a social construct and the popular idea today that "Gender is just a social construct" will be dismissed as transphobia.

AYRT

Oh, I totally misread that. Sorry. D:

No worries.

NA
I think what they're saying is that gender being separate from sex will be debunked. That doesn't invalidate trans people at all, it just ushers them back to the more accurate transexual terminology.

*anon below.

I believe the opposite. In the future, gender will become less relevant as traditional gender roles blur, until nobody will be able to tell - and nobody will think or care about - who has a penis and who has a vagina.

So sexual dymorphism will simply quit existing?

I definitely don't think that will happen, especially given that the vast majority of people are attracted to owners of one or the other of those organs.

Sexual evolution is possible. Secondary sexual characteristics evolved. They can de-evolve. That doesn't mean sexualities disappear, just that genders are less easily distinguished.

Sex as we know it, including secondary sexual characteristics, evolved over many millions of years. They're not going to de-evolve in a few decades.

I think you're wrong on that one. Sex is definitely a thing on some level, but it's messier than pop science usually admits, and there's a lot more variation within "male brains" and "female brains" than the typical ranters claim.

While there is no such thing as a "male brain" v. "female brain" when it comes to things like who's better at math/nurturing/whatever, there have been studies into brain maps, and I think eventually people will realize that yes, being transgender is a medical issue caused by brain mismapping.

When you say "messier than pop science usually admits", are you referring to intersex people? I agree that intersexuality should be acknowledged and talked about more than it is, but I think its dangerous to say that sex isn't a thing. Because sex is a thing, and to claim otherwise can lead to a lot of transphobic and misogynist rhetoric being flung around.

I'm referring more to stuff like this: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/11/24/1509654112

Also:

"Sex is definitely a thing on some level"

"I think its dangerous to say that sex isn't a thing"

English, motherfucker!

What I don't like about the terms is that it basically defines gender as society defines gender. "Gender is a social construct" means that female gender likes pink, dresses, and dolls. Male gender likes blue, trucks and action figures. That's bullshit and all those are are stereotypes, they aren't "gender".

And I do not get the "biological sex is a social construct!" that's the current buzz phrase. I get that intersex people exist, but male and female sex are things. Evolution is just not that edgy.

However, if you're implying that you believe male and female brains are different, not sure about that.

"Gender is a social construct" means that female gender likes pink, dresses, and dolls. Male gender likes blue, trucks and action figures.

... no it doesn't.

Yes, it does. It means that society defines what gender is, therefore what society says a woman or man is supposed to be is how gender is defined.

What it means is this:

Society has decided that gender exists, and that there are two genders. Society has decided that every person performs or does not perform, in varying degrees, the stereotypes and societal expectations for their gender. Society has decided that a person whose gender is male and who loves to wear dresses and play with dolls is a very non-typical male, and will treat him like one. They will not treat a female who loves dresses and dolls the same way they treat a male who does.

If what you're saying were the definition of "gender is a social construct," it would mean society has decided that a person who loves to wear dresses and play with dolls is always a female. Nobody who loved dresses and dolls would ever be treated like an atypical person of their gender by society, because how they acted would determine their gender.

You're not really saying anything different.

First, sexes do exist. Half the population really does have a penis, the other half a vagina, and a small percentage is intersex. Me being a tomboy growing up and rejecting dolls and dresses made me no less feminine and no less of a girl, because I was perfectly content with the way my body was. "Gender" is not defined by society. My gender was always female, even when I did not act in the socially typical way.

+1

Thank you! I honestly don't forget why this is so hard for some peope. Sitting in an anthropology class 15 years ago, we went through a lot of different examples of the variations in genetic sex, physical sex, gender identity, and cultural expectations of gender and how they can occur in different combinations, each characteristic functioning with various degrees of independence. We learned how cultural expectations of gender (and things like marriage, sexual orientation, and family) vary dramatically around the world. I came out of there understanding that gender identity was innate, but separate from both biological sex and culture and that a person's gender ultimately should be determined by ASKING rather than by body or behavior or what society says they are and that the answer need not be strictly limited to either male or female. The professor never actually said that, but it was the lesson I learned when presented with the data. There are a lot of different possible combinations here and the categories all have wiggly edges (even the biological ones). I don't get why people are so scared of this. Gender being real doesn't mean you are locked-in to only two options or that you must conform to what others tell you your gender means. It doesn't mean you have to be able to give a clear answer when asked. It doesn't mean it can't change over the course of your life.

Seriously, I could respond to half these comments with this. "You're using the word 'gender' to refer to something that's typically defined as 'sex,' and you're acting like any argument about 'gender' is also an argument about 'sex.'"

But I'm pretty sure gender IS defined as sex, and it was only recently that social activists have attempted to separate the two.

I have no problem with this per se, even if its relevance is somewhat limited (trans circles). But it's never quite clear exactly what people want gender to mean, besides sometimes personal sense of identity and sometimes society's identity of people, neither of which are particularly explanatory.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3257 ]

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

Re: What socially progressive ideas of today do you think will become abhorrent to future generation

ITT: Nobody can remember the difference between gender and sex

Re: ITT: Nobody can remember the difference between gender and sex