[ SECRET POST #3272 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3272 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 060 secrets from Secret Submission Post #468.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i.imgur.com/XjZNNvZ.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I also like season 2 better, even though the last two episodes were somewhat disappointing. And looking back on both seasons, there's a strange thread of vague sexism, and I can't tell if the showrunner is trying to point it out or is actually just a bit sexist.

But yeah, I really didn't like either Lester Nygaard or Lorne Malvo in S1 (Billy Bob especially skeeves me out). I found the characters in S2 generally more enjoyable, even the bad guys.

[kaijinscendre]

"there's a strange thread of vague sexism, and I can't tell if the showrunner is trying to point it out or is actually just a bit sexist."

Pretty sure that is one of the theme in both the show and movies people are meant to notice. And it wasn't at all vague in Season 2.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I'm not really very observant in my TV watching. I only realised it because the Fargo podcast I listen to pointed it out (like Peggy, who doesn't want to have children, is depicted as crazy; Betsy doesn't think she's good enough for Lou etc), along with some things that happened in S1 (Molly getting shunted to the side so that Gus could save the day).

The thing is though, I honestly can't tell if it's deliberate or not.

[sabotabby]

I felt like they were trying to make a point about sexism and then the sexism ended up being supported by the narrative.

Floyd isn't good enough to lead the Gerhardts, and it is because she's a woman.

Simone gets murdered for rebelling against her abusive criminal family.

Betsy tells that Noreen that existentialism is bullshit and having kids is the only thing that matters.

Betsy gets sidelined completely.

Lou gives a long speech about how the best thing is for the menfolk to protect their wimminz.

Peggy tries to talk about her struggles and her suffering, only to get told to STFU by Lou.

I can completely get behind the show depicting sexist attitudes, but it seemed to me that the last episode supported, rather than deconstructed, those attitudes. Add to that the literal whitewashing of Hanzee and I'm just going to pretend that the finale didn't happen to ruin what was otherwise a spectacular show.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

"I can completely get behind the show depicting sexist attitudes, but it seemed to me that the last episode supported, rather than deconstructed, those attitudes. Add to that the literal whitewashing of Hanzee and I'm just going to pretend that the finale didn't happen to ruin what was otherwise a spectacular show."

Yes, this. I thought season 2 was fantastic, especially episode 8 (in which Peggy was the best part), but the last two episodes were mostly disappointing to me and kind of soured the whole thing. I found the sexism harder to take than the deus ex machina spaceship...

[sabotabby]

I was this close to declaring that season 2 was better than 1, and then the finale happened. I didn't even mind the UFO. The UFO made more sense than Hanzee getting plastic surgery to become an Italian guy.

[(Anonymous)]

It totally does. And the origin of Numbers and Wrench also made me roll my eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree with a few points:

* Floyd was held back by men's sexist attitudes, not her own lack of ability, IMO.

* I'm not sure how Simone's murder is sexist. She didn't just "rebel" against her family, she betrayed them and endangered their lives by passing on information to the Kansas City gang. She's not fighting the patriarchy, her motives were purely selfish.

* I don't think that was Betsy's point. I don't think she's saying that having kids is the only thing that matters. You have to look at it in the context that Betsy is dying, she knows she's dying, and to her life is precious, not absurd. She'd like to see her child grow up and see how the world changes and live to a ripe old age with the man she loves, but she knows she probably won't get to do that. Betsy is basically in the exact position Camus is talking about-- she knows she's going to die, but she can't be flippant about it. It's not a joke, knowing that you'll probably go out slowly and suffering the whole time, and that your family will have to go on without you. That's what she's trying to tell Noreen.

[sabotabby]

That's how I felt at the time (at least re: Simone and Floyd) but the cumulative effect of having all the women's stories end up badly or sidelined, with Lou and Hank giving longwinded speeches about protecting women, and the narrative celebrating the restoration of order at the end, means that they all end up with sexist overtones even if that wasn't the original intent.

[kaijinscendre]

"Floyd isn't good enough to lead the Gerhardts, and it is because she's a woman." According to Otto. Bear was all for Floyd leading everyone.

"Simone gets murdered for rebelling against her abusive criminal family." Has nothing to do with being a woman. This is a common trope in crime family stories. You betray the family, you die.

"Betsy tells that Noreen that existentialism is bullshit and having kids is the only thing that matters." I don't remember this enough to comment but, Betsy seems to love what she does (plus historical context).

"Betsy gets sidelined completely." ??? Betsy was on the show a lot. This is amazing considering she is not an essential character. The show is about mainly about the cops and the various crime syndicates.

"Lou gives a long speech about how the best thing is for the menfolk to protect their wimminz." Historical context is cool.

"Peggy tries to talk about her struggles and her suffering, only to get told to STFU by Lou." Yeah. She is a bit off her rocker PLUS she killed several people (was the catalyst for this whole situation). They are not friends. She is a criminal being taken into custody. Also, Lou has had a bit of bad time himself. Why should he have to take care of this idiot who thought she could turn into some kind of mastermind?

[sabotabby]

Like I said, it's all of them in combination, with nothing in the last episode challenging period attitudes. Individually, they all make sense; together, it becomes a theme.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm kinda getting the same vibe as you, you're not alone! I mean, to be fair, the women on the show are all well-developed and interesting (I mean, Peggy was messed up but still sympathetic imo, and Molly is great). But yeah, pretty much the same issues that you have. It seems like the show kinda favors "wise", quiet, nurturing women (Betsy & Molly) over women who lash out (Peggy, Simone). I do think the show tries to engage with things like sexism, but they're not always nailing it.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, she's not depicted as crazy for not wanting to have kids, she's depicted as crazy for thinking she can change her life via some BS seminar that's likely a scam. I don't entirely disagree with you, but I think it's more nuanced than that. Peggy's not wrong for wanting to break out of her traditional gender role, but the way in which she tries to do that is a little misguided and I can see where that looks like the writers are trying to make her look bad for not wanting to be a wife and mother.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't mind the Lester Nygaard or Lorne Malvo characters at first, but they got a lot of screentime and in the end they felt more like caricatures than real people. Season two doesn't seem to have that problem... even characters who seem kind of goofy and cartoonish at first (like Peggy) end up being multi layered and very human.

[(Anonymous)]

I think rabid BBC Sherlock fans have soured me even worse on Martin Freeman than Benedict Cumberbatch. I never minded him, if he never wowed me, but now his face makes me cringe.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree anon. Also, the season 1 characters (including Molly) are supposed to be in season 3! Yay!!! But we won't be getting season 3 until 2017. Boo!!! This is according to Variety, anyway.

[elaminator]

Gonna be honest, I haven't watched since around episode four. For some reason this season didn't click for me; even with the amazing cast (and I mean it, SERIOUSLY GREAT CAST, so I'm stumped myself) it didn't grab me.

But I'm an outlier in this. I actually really enjoyed Martin's performance in S1, and Billy Bob Thornton's, but Molly and Gus were delightful and there weren't any characters in S2 that I had even remotely the same amount of affection for, so I can agree about that! (I mean, technically Molly is back, but it isn't the same.)

[(Anonymous)]

ITA This season did nothing for me. Not even close to how much I loved season one.

And I love Ted Danson, and quite a few of the other cast members. I was very disappointed.

[elaminator]

Honestly, just looking at the cast list for season 2 is crazy. Everyone is amazing, so that alone should have kept me watching.

I can't explain it, though... it just didn't work for me.

And there were some good performances, that isn't the problem, just...I didn't really love anyone, and that kept me from finishing it. Maybe if I had it would've grown on me.

[(Anonymous)]

da

I was very into S2 of Fargo, but I totally know the feeling of not being able to connect with a show. I've tried to watch some of the highly recommended ones (like Mad Men, Deadwood, The Leftovers, The Shield) and bailed out so many times. But then I loved The Wire, Breaking Bad, Justified etc. It's inexplicable why I get attached to one show but another will leave me cold. It actually makes me kinda sad, lol.

[elaminator]

YESSSSSSS, JUSTIFIED! Justified deserves all the recognition!

It's inexplicable why I get attached to one show but another will leave me cold.

That's a good way to explain it, because I certainly can't tell you why I didn't like S2 of Fargo. I just didn't. It can be difficult for me to put into words, and sometimes there's no one thing that stands out as a reason. I even think S2 of Fargo did some things right, it just...didn't have heart for me, I suppose.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought season two was awful, and the stupid, ridiculous alien storyline absolutely proved it.

[(Anonymous)]

Is that Flynn Rider? That is one sexy genderswapped Flynn Rider.

[elaminator]

Haha, no, but she IS adorable! (I did not get the Flynn Rider connection, but I can see why you did given that picture.)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1876139!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/fargo23f-1-web.jpg

http://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Tolman.jpg