Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-02-26 06:01 am
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-02-26 06:01 am
[ SECRET POST #417 ]
⌈ Secret Post #417 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
If you resubmit secrets, please mark them as resubmissions. Like add "this was too big last time" or something, or it might get shoved into the repeats. Kind of can't really remember 600+ unique secrets a week gdhtkjdfhf
Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #060.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 3 4 ] not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ] too big, [ 1 2 3 ] repeat, [ 1 ] posted twice, [ 1 ] etc, [ 1 ] ok take it to comments, [ 1 ] wtf.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: TAKE IT TO COMMENTS LOLWUT
That's fair enough. I suppose i'm pretty sore from the whole icon-related secrets thing. They keep coming up. Still, i think my argument is still relevant when addressing the differences between fanart and official art.
Then again, if we want to extend the argument, I suppose it could be said that the official artists put their work into the public sphere and are paid to allow people to have some usage of their work. They are fairly reimbursed and we have some "ownership" of the images as a "public and paid for" good. In a way, we have some claim over them because we've paid for them by buying merchandise or goods (supposing you don't bootleg or anything like that). It just seems to make sense to me that way.
Well...wouldn't recognition from fans through the making of icons and the like make them happy, then? Unless they aren't credited, of course.
It's flattering, but if you don't know about it, how can you be happy? I would not welcome the recognition from the making of icons and the like if it was not done with my permission. If someone asked "can I make an icon out of your cosplay?" I'd appreciate it and consider giving consent, but if they didn't and just took my image, i'd be pissed off, whether they credited or not. It's common courtesy to ask permission when redistributing images when you can. D:
Re: TAKE IT TO COMMENTS LOLWUT
Fanworks are also put into the public sphere (fandom) by their makers, and the payment comes in the form of praise and recognition.
To me it's not actually a question of money, or payment, when it comes to art, but I've gathered that opinions differ greatly even among fanartists.
I would not welcome the recognition from the making of icons and the like if it was not done with my permission.
I would. Which is not to say that I'm right; it just makes it hard for me to understand why people are upset about it.
It's common courtesy to ask permission when redistributing images when you can.
In my opinion, posting the pictures in public pretty much makes them the property of the public. I don't expect anybody else to adhere to my opinion, or even agree with it; but if I would post an image publicly, I'll expect it to be reposted, used, cut, and manipulated in every way. No matter if I'd been paid for it or not.
Re: TAKE IT TO COMMENTS LOLWUT
When you don't get much praise or recognition, it's not that important, especially in the case of Japanese doujinshi artists. Most of the English fanbase barely even registers the names of circles or cares. How many cosplayers can you name that you've seen icons for? It's not so much about monetary compensation, but it's about what people are prepared to see their work becoming. You say that "opinions differ among fanartists", and indeed they do. You and I have different opinions right now. Isn't it better to respect those opinions and ask a fanartist if you can use their work before making it, rather than assuming that your view of things is correct?
it just makes it hard for me to understand why people are upset about it.
The fact is that you do know that people get upset about it. I never used to say anything this outspoken but all these secrets got to the niggling at the back of my mind. Some of my friends use fanart icons, and I just shrug it off knowing that if they're alright with it i'll just respect their views rather than call them in on it because we're friends. I feel bad about it, and I wish I could ask them about it, but if we don't know each other that well I don't want to seem that pedantic. I wish people would ask. I wish that japanese fans would have more respect for international ones, but as long as people keep doing things like this, we won't get rid of that image. Perhaps asking is a good step, no?
posting the pictures in public pretty much makes them the property of the public.
This would depend on the copyright and intents of the artist. If every piece of art ever created and put in the public sphere was allowed to be used in this way, no one would make any money at all, and images would just simply be a free-for-all. The difference between commercial art and fanwork icons is the respect between fans, and courtesy to inform someone whose work would not usually get this treatment about what is being done with their images. I don't expect people to like my work so much that they would make icons out if it, so I like to know when it happens, rather than chance upon someone with my or my friend's face in their signature on a forum.
I'm not trying to say that cosplay or fanart icons are wrong. All i'm saying is, if you can ask for permission, you should ask for it. If they are fanartists or cosplayers, even if they are Japanese, they will usually have a contact address. Ask, and wait for a reply. Get someone to translate for you if necessary. Why is that so difficult? How do you know that they will share your view on works in the public sphere? Isn't it a little strange to just assume things like that?
Re: TAKE IT TO COMMENTS LOLWUT
Well, I never use fanart/cosplayart for anything, and I don't expect I ever will. As I said, I don't expect others to adhere to my view, but it's still my opinion.
The fact is that you do know that people get upset about it.
Yes, but this isn't a case of me justifying my use of fanart - I don't use it. I'm simply stating my opinion on use of fanart posted online.
If every piece of art ever created and put in the public sphere was allowed to be used in this way, no one would make any money at all, and images would just simply be a free-for-all.
I'm not talking about property as in claiming its ownership; just the general use in other works, like icons and such where official art is already used. In my opinion there is no difference between official and fanart here; it's not like I recognise every actor in the icons I've seen, or the official art for certain series.
(Honestly though, I think it's a bit creepy to use real people in one's icons.)
Why is that so difficult? How do you know that they will share your view on works in the public sphere? Isn't it a little strange to just assume things like that?
Again, I never use fanart for anything. Asking permission is not difficult (usually), I've just stated my opinions on why I don't think it should be necessary. I've never assumed how any fanartist would react, nor what views they have. I'm just giving my opinions of the situation.
Re: TAKE IT TO COMMENTS LOLWUT
I didn't mean to make it sound like I was attacking you directly. I used the word "you" as a generalization of sorts, meaning to challenge the view of anyone who would use your arguments as an excuse to actually go about making cosplay/fanart icons out of others' work without permission. It seems that there are people who think that way. I think asking for permission is necessary, but perhaps that's just my opinion as well, except I also think it's just more courteous and more common sense than anything else. If people don't want to do it, then they don't have to. It's just incredibly rude in my eyes to ignore the artist and do what one pleases' without considering their wishes.
I'm not talking about property as in claiming its ownership; just the general use in other works, like icons and such where official art is already used. In my opinion there is no difference between official and fanart here; it's not like I recognise every actor in the icons I've seen, or the official art for certain series.
That's what I mean, though. To me, there is a difference between the two forms of art. Fandom/the public obviously does not officially own commercial art, but we do have some claim over it due to the fact that it is commercial. To me it's almost part of marketing, similar to the way the doujinshi market is like promotion for official series. Copyrights and such protect the people and artists portrayed, whereas there is very little for fanartists to hold onto. (This is possibly why art theft is such a problem). Icons can't be used for much else other than in fandom, so they're not a threat to commercial entities in terms of copyright. Whether you really recognize the people or characters is not that much of an issue, whereas for a fanartist or a cosplayer it counts for everything, because it's pretty much the only recognition they will ever get.
Also, quite honestly, I don't find it creepy to use a real person in ones icon if its a) you yourself, or b) an official character. :/ not everyone uses drawings or landscapes in their icons. ._.'