Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-02-28 06:05 am
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-02-28 06:05 am
[ SECRET POST #419 ]
? Secret Post #419 ?
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 083 secrets from Secret Submission Post #060.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 2 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 ] too big, [ 1 ] repeat, [ 1 ] PSA, [ 1 ] etc, [ 1 ] posted twice.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
Even setting the fic during the three days where Mohinder doesn't know Sylar's true identity is not suitable for fluff.
I see fluffy interaction only possible in an AU where Sylar never became a serial killer and never murdered Mohinder's father or anybody else, and never used and deceived Mohinder and they never tried to torture or kill each other...
And why don't you just go and name them John and Joe or whatever, because that's not Sylar and Mohinder anymore, and that removes everything that makes their interaction so fascinating.
no subject
I just don't like to say that ALL kind of fluff in Mylar is terrible. The same can be said about smut. Mohinder would never actually have sex with his father's murderer, but there's an astoundingly huge amount of fic where he actually does, and some of it is really, really good. That's the great thing about fanfic: reading about the possibilities that exist within the ship. I mean, there's even a couple of cute little Mylar moments in the show! *points to icon*
Now, if the fic is EXTREMELY OOC and Sylar and Mohinder are cuddling in bed and whispering sweet nothings to each other, then I can see your last point - that isn't what they would do. But, I repeat, I don't voluntarily read fic like that. And instead of saying "GTFO FLUFF WRITERS" like the OP did, I just choose not to read fic that is exclusively fluffy.
no subject
Introducing an OOC element or something that twists the actual canon like a thumbscrew (which waff fic for this pairing inevitably as the tides must do because it will not work otherwise) is not what Mylar should be - in my opinion, the challenge in this specific pairing is to make it work with what LITTLE canon gives us in lieu of an actual relationship, and not with the HUGE amount of chemistry Sendhil and Zach have with each other.
I can see how a very talented author could make it work, but that's still not the type of fic I'd want to read for this pairing.
no subject
Characterization is key in fic, and if I find that it's off, then I won't read it anymore. Or, if a fic has a label that I don't like, I just won't click on it. That doesn't change the fact that those types of fic will keep cropping up, because everybody has their own idea of the ship and its dynamics.
no subject
What I see is possible interpretations (which in my head fall in very, very broad boundaries, so it's not as though I'm a stickler for the One True Interpretation. Heck, I wrote necrophilia for that pairing!) in two classes - IC and OOC.
If you can actually explain how event x came to pass without having the fic shit all over itself in the process, fine and dandy. If, however, event x is so far out there that you basically have to repaint the whole universe for it to fit in any way, then either call it AU or write originals, because then I'm not reading Mylar anymore.
For me, fluff in Mylar like, for example, during the road trip can only happen if it ends in violence - because else you'd be writing not much more than a PWP AND stop without going to the last consequence, seeing Mohinder eventually finds out about Sylar's identity and his reaction has not been benevolent, fluffy or waffy in any way, shape or form. Trying to write fluff after this point is impossible. You cannot construct Schroedinger's Fic out of what we're actually given, in a quantum state of both fluff and un-fluff. The only possible way for Mylar fluff I see if they both get good bonks in the head and develop spontaneous (and, in Sylar's case, MASSIVE) amnesia, but that's not Mylar anymore either.
no subject
Even "nice little moment they had during their road trip". To me any such scenario would get a very bitter taste because I know Sylar is using Mohinder to get to his next victims, and as soon as Mohinder finds out, he will be in mortal danger. Even if the fic is written strictly from Mohinder's POV and he only has the fondest thoughts of Sylar, are you really able to completely ignore who Sylar is and what he is doing?
no subject
I suppose that I just have a different definition of fluff in relation to the Mylar pairing than other people do. I made it clear in my original post that I don't read or like the extremely WAFF Mylar fic, but there are certain instances that I've seen in fic that I can't point out here, or I'd be linking a number of fic to you, or I'd be listing a bunch of quotes from fic. So, I suppose that I have missed your point, and if you've missed mine, then... c'est la vie.
ETA:
Even if the fic is written strictly from Mohinder's POV and he only has the fondest thoughts of Sylar, are you really able to completely ignore who Sylar is and what he is doing?
What I've been trying to say is that - IMO - there's still fluff in that, in the sense that Mohinder is happy when he's thinking about Sylar, and, while I don't disregard the fact that Sylar is manipulating Mohinder and lying to him during the road trip, I also don't disregard how Mohinder might have felt about Sylar. If I hadn't seen the slightest bit of a shared, genuine connection between Mohinder and Sylar during Season 1, (e.g. the way that they'd pat each other on the shoulders, when they'd talked so openly about their feelings and insecurities to each other, how they each validated each other in some way, Sylar keeping Mohinder as his advisor in 5YG, etc.), then I probably wouldn't have ended up shipping them at all.
no subject
To me "twisted" just about negates "fluff". I thought that was the norm...
I've often talked about how Mohinder is special to Sylar, but while this makes him sort of safer than most people, it's far from pleasant for him. It's creepy to have the psychopathic serial killer care for you. Especially if his idea of caring means that he will still kidnap and torture you, but he will do it with pleasure.
Whatever Sylar's feelings for Mohinder are, they are kind of complicated, and I think you'd have to ignore way too many aspects in order to get fluff from it. He obviously enjoys seeing him suffer, he likes pushing Mohinder towards his breaking point.
Chances are, Sylar's thoughts about Mohinder won't be... fluffy.
But whatever, I doubt we'll ever agree on this. I'm just glad that the show's creators write the kind of Mylar I like, multifaceted, hard to pin down, and always dangerous.
no subject
Now this, I can agree with. I love that the writers can stay true to the characters, and I hope that they can continue exploring that relationship in the future. My whole philosophy is that pretty much anything can happen in fanfic and it can be executed well; however, in canon, there are rules set within the characters and the relationships, and I would be disheartened if Sylar and Mohinder suddenly became best friends, or if they ever have a gratuitous makeout scene.
no subject
no subject
Eh, me neither, of course not. But I just don't see why you would ship Mylar BECAUSE of their complex relationship, but ship it in a way that removes the complexity, and only ever focuses on one aspect of their interaction. The fluff. The angst. The hypothetical sex. Why not write them like they are on the show with all aspects of their personalities together?
I guess Mohinder's thoughts about Sylar started out, well, they started out wary and doubtful, but he grew happier around him during the road trip. Until they came to the motel, where Sylar's strange behaviour creeped Mohinder out a little, and the next morning brought the definite end of all possibly comfort he'd come to feel around him. Sure, if you set a fic during the road trip before they arrive at the motel... but that would feel incomplete to me, I guess. It lacks something if it just cuts Mohinder's changing feelings off at a convenient point just so the fic can be labelled fluff. And since I know what happens next in the canon, I can't pretend it's nice that Mohinder feels happy around the guy, thereby walking into the trap of the man who will kill an innocent woman the next day, and torture Mohinder half to death three days later.
no subject
But you are willing to disregard how this is the first major step to Mohinder being emotionally and physically hurt like no person ever should be or deserves to be, because if you disregard that it's so cute how Sylar cares about him awwwww and there should totally be fluff about it who gives a fuck how Mohinder feels about it!
Can't you just go ship Sylar with some OC instead of treating Mohinder's emotions about the whole situation like ... a bagatelle? If you saw the canon from his POV, there is no way in hell you could be okay with fluffy, happy Mylar. Your kind of reasoning is what makes me believe 98% of Mylar fans don't give two shits about Mohinder, and in turn it makes me hate 98% of the fandom for this pairing. Please don't ignore Mohinder's emotions for your porn and fluff fix. It's offensive.
no subject
I didn't mean to give off the impression that I don't care about Mohinder's feelings. I wasn't even trying to imply that. What I was trying to say is, in that sort of flashback fic, it's interesting to read how Mohinder might have felt about Sylar, how he might have actually liked him as a person or as a friend, especially when those feelings are compared with the feelings Mohinder felt about "Zane" after he discovered his true identity. Just because their developing "friendship" - for lack of a better word - turned out to be a lie, doesn't mean that they never connected in a somewhat positive and genuine sense, unlike the other existing Sylar ships.
And with all due respect, I do care about Mohinder. I don't see him as some mindless hole for Sylar to fill, and I don't view him as "Sylar's twu love" or his BFF (well, except when I'm feeling particularly cracky). He's shown time and time again that he can one-up Sylar, and it's implied that Sylar views him as an equal, or a force to be reckoned with - to me, there's no way that any other character (canon or OC) could fill Mo's shoes, which is why I normally avoid fic like that, and that's why I don't ship, say, Sylaire, for example. My favorite kind of fic features angsty, in-character Mylar, but I'm not going to say that ANY kind of fluff is atrocious and should be banned, because that would be hipocritical of me - I've enjoyed reading plenty of good crackfic and AU fic out there that features a little or a lot of fluff.
I've cited instances in canon upthread where there are nice little moments between the guys, and if fic writers want to go off of those moments and explore them however they want to, I don't see what the problem with that is. I don't exclusively read PWP smut or death fic or crack/fluff fic for those two, so if enjoying different genres of Mylar fic makes me a bad shipper, then so be it. I like what I like, and I try not to knock people down for having their own perceptions of the ship.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-02-29 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)But all my friends think I'm disgusting for shipping Brody/Claire. So what if he is a serial rapist, I want more fluff!
no subject
Not that I can't agree with the last point, but by Jove, it's irritating the pants off of my cushioned arse. If you want fluffy characters, then write Sasan/Mohinder, it certainly makes more sense than fluffwaffzomgsocute Mylar because that's NOT Sylar and Mohinder... although of course crossovers open an entirely new can of worms right there.
no subject
I guess I should be happy as long as such views of the characters stay into their badfic corner. The Matt/Mo people are bad enough in that regard. XD
no subject
But... but... what if the badfic corner is (seemingly) the whole fandom? D: Does that mean I need to make up my own corner
with black jack and hookers?no subject
See, this is why I just never feel quite at home in any fandom. It's always about fanfic fanfic fanfic and every now and then, people will try to talk about the actual show, but that only makes it even clearer than their fanfiction that they don't really understand what the colourful pictures on their TV screen actually mean.
As someone who wants to talk about the series and the stories and the characters, dammit, it's really a pain in the ass that everyone has his or her own OOC idea of the characters and rargh rant rant rant ---
no subject
Maybe I should join The Avengers fandom.
I can see the appeal of fanfic (obviously?), mostly because any canon can feel incomplete no matter how much it was explored - see Star Trek novels, for example - and obviously talented authors can wring
pornfic even from a stone in the Sahara, but I understand why it can get irritating.Actual discussion can be just as (or even more) rewarding than fic, but still everyone sane and insane jumps the fic and the discussion is left in the dust, like a christmas cake on the 26th of December.
In Heroes fandom in particular, trying to start an intelligent discussion is like painting a huge target on your back and writing "fling bullshit here" below it, I suppose :/
no subject
God knows why I'm lobbying for Watsuki fandom to grow. X_x
no subject
no subject
Theeeeeeen again, anything to cancel out this anti-fandom of whiners and bashers, hmm...
no subject
no subject
It's too late for thinky.
no subject
*cries silent tears*