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[ SECRET POST #3298 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3298 ⌋

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[Floraverse]

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[Star Wars: The Force Awakens]

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What are some annoying phrases people use as cop outs in debates or arguments. Why do you think they're a cop out?

(Protip: Pointing something out and backing it up when you don't want to hear or accept it is not a cop out. A cop out would be something someone uses to back out of properly explaining their point or evading criticism for their behavior)

"I don't have to time to educate you about this. Figure out why you are wrong yourself."

Someone said something like that to me once. I personally think he just didn't know what he was talking about, and I embarrassed him.

This.

"We're going to just have to agree to disagree on this one." Usually said when I've spent the past hour rebutting each of their points and they have repeated the same thing over and over again without actually responding to anything I've said.

It is annoying when used in that context. But sometimes when you are talking about an opinion thing or an interpretation thing it is better just to say that rather than to keep disagreeing and never reach an agreement. Some things are never going to settle.

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-01-15 00:32 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

philstar22 - 2016-01-15 00:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-01-15 01:19 (UTC) - Expand

Yes. That's basically "My mind is changed but I won't admit it."

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-01-15 00:31 (UTC) - Expand

Possibly because you've been rebutting them with information from sites that end in .org and use red font on a black background. ; ) Seriously, there are points when disengaging is the only possible response. Call it the waterslide argument: https://xkcd.com/1081/

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-01-15 00:41 (UTC) - Expand

Eh, this isn't always a copout. Sometimes when you have both already gone over your argument ad nauseum and nobody's mind has been changed at all, you just have to realize that there's no point discussing it anymore. I say it every now and then myself.

In the context you mentioned yeah...I guess I've never seen anyone use it that way. Hm.

Edited 2016-01-15 15:07 (UTC)

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

nonnymouscawitz - 2016-01-15 17:55 (UTC) - Expand

"You clearly didn't read the article." FUCK YOU

YOU have said that to ME before!

Fuck YOU you hypocritical dig back!

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

dethtoll - 2016-01-15 00:57 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 01:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

dethtoll - 2016-01-15 01:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 01:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

dethtoll - 2016-01-15 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 07:14 (UTC) - Expand

"There are no easy answers." *looks sad*

I mean, it is often true and I can see it being used in ways that aren't annoying (like if you're explaining the reality of a situation and someone says "All these ideas people want to try won't completely solve the problem" you can say "Hey, there are no easy answers!"), but so often I hear people say it when that's ALL they say. They just wanted to sound smart without actually saying anything anyone could call them out on or disagree with (someone might get mad at them!) or risking admitting they don't know much about the topic or just don't care.

I can't because work/studies/kids etc have me too busy.

Sure, there will always be times when you're busier.

But if you truly want, you will make time. If you don't, it means I'm just not tat important to you.

I often feel the way you feel here, and I honestly think, after some reflection and time, that it can be a little unfair. And for me it leads quickly down the path of being manipulative/controlling.

Sometimes people really ARE just that busy. And if they're important to me, I make an effort to understand that and let them do their thing. Yeah if it goes on for weeks or months that's one thing...but that's not always the case.

Edited 2016-01-15 15:09 (UTC)

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

kallanda_lee - 2016-01-16 22:03 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

diet_poison - 2016-01-17 15:31 (UTC) - Expand

"You're taking this too seriously" is a classic and I see it a lot.

I remember my beta reader once, in apparent seriousness that bullshit saying about "lousy locks and master keys" (regarding men and women having sex) and when I pointed out how sexist it was, it got waved off with "Oh don't take it so seriously it's just a joke, like blonde jokes".

(But this was the same person who took outrage to "Born This Way" teaching bad morals because "it's saying that it's okay to be a psychopath or gay" (one of those things is NOT like the other))

But I see it used more often as if criticizing something is taking it too seriously. Like I'm not saying people don't take things too seriously, but when you make an argument and someone pokes holes in it, responding with "oh you're just taking it way too seriously." or something

Did you not intend for them to?

Or did you just want them to take it seriously if they agreed?

That one bugs me too and there's another way it gets used that bothers me. I remember I was having an argument with someone about a Disney movie and the other person was just factually wrong, but eventually it came to basically "lol I haven't seen this movie in years and I don't really care". Apparently they thought they were on higher ground because they didn't care and didn't know what they were talking about. That's how discussions work right? Whoever knows the least about the subject is the least pathetic and automatically wins?

I don't even remember what the original argument was because I agree that it wasn't anything important, but that was ridiculous.

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 00:41 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

A few days ago, I posted about the tendency to respond to Doylist criticism with increasingly loud Watsonian justifications. ("Why is the sniper half-naked?" "Because she breathes through her skin." "No, why did they choose to make her half-naked?" "Because she breathes through her skin!") It turns out this is called the Thermian Argument: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk

Aaaaaargh, I hate it when people do that. I'm firmly on the Doylist side of the spectrum, and I hate how these arguments usually end with me feeling like or people telling me that I'm an unimaginative curmudgeon who has lost the wonderfully childlike magical ability to believe these fictional characters are real.

They're not real! But the author is real, and I like examning the author's choices in creating thiese fictional people and what effect they have within their world and outside of their world as characters.

The sniper is naked because when she lost the ability to speak communication through body language took on new importance. The sniper is naked because the relationship between her and the main character, including a mutual sexual attraction, forms the heart of the story. The sniper is naked because that's the kind of wank material the creator digs. Take your pick.

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 13:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 19:19 (UTC) - Expand

"I wasn't trying to get everyone ranting about this."

Then why would you post it??

In real life, "You're really upset about this. I can't argue when you're like this." Or, the more simple and honest internet equivalent, "u mad?" Your argument is invalid because you have feelings... okay, makes sense!

"You're just biased," an easy way to make "You clearly know what you're talking about because it means more to you than it does to me and I don't know how to argue" sound like it makes you wrong instead of them.

WELL THAT'S JUST MY OPINION!
or
WELL THAT'S JUST HOW I AM!

shorthand for: I'm an abrasive asshole who doesn't care how my statements negatively affect others, and I refuse to take responsibility for what I've said. My freedom of speech, no matter how nasty or objectionable, also equals freedom from being criticized for making such speech. So get over it.

My uncle always loves to abrasively argue politics over email with the family, and his usual response is to link to some twenty minute youtube video and say "WATCH THIS THEN WE'LL TALK." Like no? If you believe what the video says, why don't you try to sum it up for us or use it to form your own arguments, rather than expecting everyone to watch whatever nonsense you send us?

There's a habit people have of using catchphrases that they think are fully general counterarguments. They tend to end debate because at that point, they think they have successfully rebutted your point and they don't understand why you're still talking.

Like when creationists say "Were you there?" when discussing evidence of early life. Or when lousy feminists say "That's not women's fault" when discussing complicated social issues.

Re: Least Favorite Cop Outs

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-15 19:32 (UTC) - Expand

"You clearly don't know anything about this topic..." AFTER BEING CALLED OUT ON MAKING SHIT UP

"All the experts..." No the fucking don't because you're making shit up I can't even find shit from 60 years ago even close to your outdated made up claims

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