[ SECRET POST #3308 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3308 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #473.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

lol Guess female characters shouldn't have flaws then

- A woman author who loves writing selfish brats that grow out of it

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I can kind of see their point, because I wrote a character like this. She was supposed to be feisty and a little mean but grow out of it; reading it years later, I realized she was just annoying and became a little less so. Her overreactions to everything created so many contrived situations. That's not fun, and I think that's what OP might be getting at.

You can have a character have flaws and not be annoying to read/watch. That's what a lot of writers don't get.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, OP being annoyed about a single, particular character trait means they're asserting that no female characters should have flaws, ever.

Why is internet discussion so brainlessly asinine?

[(Anonymous)]

Not just internet discussion...

[(Anonymous)]

Well, probably because it's a writer who enjoys writing bratty female characters but doesn't want to consider the possibility that not everyone loves them and the secret touched a nerve.

[(Anonymous)]

This. So very this. As someone who is both a girl and :gasp: a feminist, I am all about wanting to see more female characters kicking ass and taking names and being awesome. The trouble is both fan and professional writers seem to see "Feisty" and "Strong" as code words for "Female character lacks basic tact" and while they do have some scenes were they knock down some strawmen or take out some nameless mooks, said "Strong" and "feisty" female character only marginally accomplishes more than the old Damsel in Distress-types who'd just faint whenever bad things happen.

Seriously, I keep wanting to kidnap every exec or person in Hollywood that matters and force them to attend a seminar I'm calling "Women Studies." The subtitle will be "Turns Out They're Not All That Different From Dudes." Because it's true; we like some of the same things. We just pack different equipment.

[(Anonymous)]

It's true. OP was specifically targeting you, the great Woman Author, and wants you to abolish all flaws in female characters. But thank god you'll carry on fighting the good fight, and especially keep milking a boring cliche that has roots in and often engages openly with misogynist stereotypes and tropes. We praise you, Woman Author!

[(Anonymous)]

Oh do get over your sarcasm. You sound like a brat.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have the energy to unravel the Layers

[(Anonymous)]

+12

[(Anonymous)]

Quoted from the secret: "It's not that I believe no female character should ever be portrayed negatively..."

Reading comprehension fail. I hope you're a lot more thoughtful about writing and characterization.

[(Anonymous)]

It's also quickly followed by "BUT." Not directly, but the implication is there.

Usually when you say "I don't think X, BUT..." you know that's exactly what you're saying.

[(Anonymous)]

Er, no? There's no need to use our psychic powers to guess what the implication is because we can just read the sentence. The OP doesn't say, "It's not that I believe no female character should ever be portrayed negatively BUT HAHA I TOTALLY BELIEVE THAT." OP says that when they do see female characters portrayed negatively, it looks more like bad writing than a purposeful characterization.

In other words, when they see a female character who's a childish brat, the author isn't TRYING to write a childish brat, they're trying to write a feisty heroine and THAT'S what OP doesn't like: badly written female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Men have flaws that emphasise their manhood, women have flaws that emphasise their childishness. This is not ok.

[(Anonymous)]

So, there's no bratty or childish male characters? There's a reason that "manchild" is an archetype.

[(Anonymous)]

In a lot of mainstream media, however, the manchild is 1) still the hero and 2) still gets a hot chick at the end without having to grow up.

[(Anonymous)]

Plus, more often than not, the dude's general manchildishness is portrayed as being charming and roguish and irresistible. It's not that he has to grow up; it's that everybody else has to learn to relax and accept his methods! His manchildishness is an inherent part of his genuis and his charm!

Whereas when a female character is a childish brat, she usually is brought to see the error of her ways and realizes how important it is that she change for the better.

It doesn't help that the most writers seem to be really terrible at writing "roguish, charmingly abrasive" female characters. They can turn out a thousand charmingly abrasive male characters, but as soon as you change the pronoun, it's like, "Wait...but how can her abrasiveness possibly be charming? How do you expect me to write those things as coexisting in the same character?! How am I supposed to balance that?!!"

[(Anonymous)]

Yep, this. The childish female brat is expected to grow up and mature as part of her character development. The manchild character rarely experiences that development arc to the same extent. They might exhibit some gained maturity, but they still retain many of the same roguish, eccentric qualities... and that's seen as a positive outcome. It's not an obstacle to career success OR romance, either.

[ketita]

There are plenty of flaws you can give a female character that are not "bratty".

[(Anonymous)]

You know, there's a happy medium between female characters who are unlikeable brats and Mary Sues without any flaws. The fact that you don't seem to see that doesn't bode well for the quality of your heroines. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you write the sort of "strong" heroines are actually just irritating gender stereotypes.

[(Anonymous)]

You can write young, selfish brats but imo they need to have some redeemable quality for people to keep reading (though I think that's just a general requirement for writing engaging characters). I instinctively think of Chibi-Usa (from Sailor Moon) when I read about the "selfish-brat-who's-really-just-spunky" archetype, and my god, I hate that red-eyed demon-child! So I have a natural dislike for bratty youngsters in books or tv or whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

Someone's stuck in 1998.