[ SECRET POST #3336 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3336 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.

















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #477.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dethtoll]

There's also a chance it's the same person who got outrageously angry with me because I said that Christmas was a secular holiday and they acted like my saying so was some sort of oppression against her Jewish faith.

[(Anonymous)]

its not a secular holiday though? its a christian holiday.

admittedly its a stupid thing to get outrageously angry over, but come on man.

[dethtoll]

¿por qué no los dos?

Christmas has taken on a secular meaning (themes of family, friendship, homecoming, goodwill, none of which are married to religious concepts) outside of its origins in Pagan and later Christian traditions and indeed apart from the entirely unreligious commercialization by corporate interests dating back to the beginning of the industrial age.

[(Anonymous)]

lol okay. enjoy living in your little christian denial-bubble, i guess. ill be over here in reality.

[dethtoll]

While you're over there can you get me a chicken sandwich?

[(Anonymous)]

Christmas is a pagan holiday the Christians appropriated.

[iggy]

Wrong.

Christmas predates those Pagan traditions. Christmas celebrations do contain some originally Pagan elements, but 12/25 being celebrated as the birth of Christ did not come from a Pagan holiday.

[dancing_clown]

Excuse me? Secular people doing something doesn't cancel the Christian-ness of the holiday as a whole. Ditto for Easter.

[(Anonymous)]

don't bother. there's no point in debating with the sort of people who've convinced themselves that any traditions originating in religious practice aren't "really" religious if they're observed by people who're nominally secular.

this can only end in a pointless circular argument with a whole lot of namecalling. i've seen it many times; here, elsewhere on the internet, and even in real life.

[dethtoll]

lol

[(Anonymous)]

lol yourself

[dethtoll]

I disagree! :D

[(Anonymous)]

> thinking that a fact can be disagreed with

lol typical christian.

[dethtoll]

I'd ask where the hell you got that from but I'm laughing too hard.

[iggy]

Christmas did not start out as a Pagan holiday.

[dethtoll]

Then tell the class what it started out as then.

[iggy]

It started out as a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, on December 25th.

That Christmas celebrations brought in Pagan elements is true, but that Christmas began as a Pagan holiday is not.

[dethtoll]

What? Wait, you're basing your argument on the date the holiday falls on? That's a non-starter.

Assuming Jesus was actually real, nobody actually knows when he was born. The likely explanation (though some disagree) for December 25 being the chosen date was because that happened to be the date of a Roman festival in worship of Sol Invictus. Winter solstice festivals like that one were popular at the time, so naturally they got incorporated.

You're being overly literal here. If you want to argue that Christmas didn't exist until the Christians invented it, then technically Christmas didn't exist until 1038 at the earliest when the Old English word Crīstesmæsse was first recorded.

[iggy]

The assignment of the date as December 25th predated Sol Invictus by almost one hundred years. Hippolytus of Rome decided that Jesus was born on December 25th because his date of death was generally accepted as March 25th, and there was a Jewish tradition stating that righteous men died on the date they were conceived.

In fact it's believed by many that Sol Invictus may have been created as a Pagan ALTERNATIVE to the Roman Christian significance of the 25th of December.

Either way, it's a fact that 12/25 as the designation of Jesus's birth, thus the obvious choice for day of celebration, predates Sol Invictus.

[dethtoll]

Sol Invictus was just a reformation of a more ancient form of sun worship, though, with perhaps some influence from the cult of Elagabalus.

All this is besides the point in that you're operating on an overly narrow and literal version of Christmas history. By your rigid standards for what constitutes "Christmas," I could argue the holiday didn't technically start until the 1930s when Coca-Cola invented the modern version of Santa. It's a ridiculous, stupid argument, sure, but so is pretending that Christmas was invented out of whole cloth with no basis in pre-existing winter festivals.

[iggy]

I'm talking about Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ. Where are you getting that I'm talking specifically about modern Christmas??

Actually I outright said that some Christmas traditions are taken from Pagan ones, if you read. But that Christmas was 'originally a Pagan celebration' is patently false.

[dethtoll]

I'm talking about Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ. Where are you getting that I'm talking specifically about modern Christmas??

I'm not. Try reading my comment again.

[diet_poison]

It's a Christian holiday for Christians and it's on the liturgical calendar, so you're correct.

Many people approach it as a secular holiday though. And if you're trying to make a point about how it's often treated in pop culture then I can see claiming it's a secular holiday. So basically it's both depending on who you talk to and you're both correct.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, there is more than one Jew on this com and I don't remember if it was me that you're referring to. It might have been. (Oh wait, was this when I said I was bored on Christmas and someone said that I should celebrate Christmas? Because I started that thread but I don't think I'm the one that got super furious at that response.)

I mean, I judge the shit out of Jews who celebrate Christmas because at root it's about the celebration of what is essentially a heretical idol; somewhat paradoxically I don't appreciate the devolution of what is supposed to be a religious holiday into a secular excuse to party and exchange gifts. I feel offended on the part of truly believing Christians.

[(Anonymous)]

What the shit even is this comment.