fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3341 ]

[ SECRET POST #3341 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3341 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[David Mitchell/Victoria Coren, British Comedian RPF]

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03.

[Assassin's Creed Rogue]

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05. [SPOILERS for Letters From The Inside]

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06. [SPOILERS for The Force Awakens]

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07. [SPOILERS for Gintama]

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08. [SPOILERS for The Something? Supernatural? Maybe?]
[WARNING for non-consensual relationships]

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09. [SPOILERS for Walking Dead]
[WARNING for parental incest]

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10. [SPOILERS for Black Mirror]
[WARNING for bestiality and rape]

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11. [SPOILERS for Bioshock Infinite]
[WARNING for incest]

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12. [WARNING for underage]

[Leon: The Professional]

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13. [WARNING for abuse]

[Venus Angelic]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #477.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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(spoilers)

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I do not feel as though it was well written. Rey's progress to being godlike in just a few hours, I did not like...What character progress is she going to get after that? The plot was a rehash of the first movie. You might say it was purposeful and it definitely could be, but that doesn't make it NOT lazy...

I enjoyed the movie, don't get me wrong, but I don't like the unilateral praise of its amazing plot and characters. It was good, not great, and rode on a lot of nostalgia and references to get through the rest. But hey, it was better than the prequels.

How is Rey's super-fast progress any different from Luke's though?

He didn't progress as fast as she did. The Jedi Mind tricks are supposed to be extremely difficult to do and are the end stage of Jedi training. Luke had a little training, at least, before using a lightsaber. I don't know if she used the Force to move objects (I don't think she did), so I can't comment on that.

Where in the movies is it said that Mind-Tricks are end stage Jedi training? The EU isn't canon to the movies.

Rey didn't do anything nearly as impressive as Luke. Luke got a few days of training before the Death Star - he didn't use his lightsaber training at all, and the whole "don't use your eyes, feel it with your mind" trick, which wasn't really "training" either, it was an idea that Obi Wan gave him which he remembered and used in a last-ditch effort to hit the target on the Death Star.

Also that's not how learning works. It's not 100% linear for everyone, and Rey was in a really desperate life-or-death situation and did it almost by accident, which can make anyone, even IRL, suddenly get a grasp on abilities that would be beyond them in other situations.

I agree with all of this.

I wonder if the idea that Luke took forever to train is misremmebering canon? Because I remembered it as this long process too, until I rewatched and realized... everything you just said, basically.

okay but hear me out:

this is a movie

I'm sick of people making comparisons between Luke and Rey when their storylines are starting from two very different cultural settings: one where Star Wars is a new property and "the Force" is all but a mystery to viewers, and one which things like Jedi mind tricks have been known for decades. Luke's progression was more gradual because the expansion his universe was also more gradual-- you'd better believe if the storyline of A New Hope had called for an opportunity for Luke to escape a situation via Jedi mind tricks because it was the best way of moving the story forward and expanding on what the Force could do, he absolutely would have. the only difference was that he wasn't placed in that position, and his "training" arc of sorts was of importance to the next films.

when SW originally came out, no plans for a sequel, they weren't going to toss in him learning Jedi mind tricks or any number of other abilities that expands the universe beyond what could be contained in a two hour film because at the time, that was all they believed they had. it is unfair to compare them in a vacuum, without looking at what Star Wars is culturally, and what best suits the storyline of the film-- not necessarily in keeping with some nebulous notion of "consistency" about magical space powers.

He trained formally for at least a couple months and then informally for a year or so.

Uhhhh...not in A New Hope he didn't. He got a few days.

And Rey has been "training" informally basically all her life - with her survival tools etc.

This.

Luke didn't learn mind manipulation in less than a day.

ayrt

Actually she didn't "learn" it all, she did it instinctively, and kind of by accident. Which was the whole point. Gifted in the force and all. Luke also "learned" blind targeting in about 30 seconds.

The young protagonist being instinctively gifted in things it takes other people a long time to learn is a universal trope among stories like these, and has happened to a huge number of male protagonists, especially in frickin' fantasy/speculative fiction, and the male protagonists never get called "godlike" for being oddly precocious at a couple of things.

It isn't. It is a lazy rehash meant to get your nostalgia boner up. That doesn't mean it ins't a fun watch!

Oh, here we go again.
I'm not going to defend anything here. Just came here to say I'm sick of people comlaining how this and that "isn't well written because [cliché idea about writing][buzzword][Ihaveabetteridea][some sort of reference to something being lazy]"

Are you sick of people praising the movie? You're shouting down what are in my mind legitimate criticisms. I'm not saying that the movie isn't enjoyable. I don't even care much that people think that the movie is great. I am a little sick of people like you, though.

When movie studios see a smash hit movie remake, with nostalgia bait and little else, they learn to do it again. And again. I had the same complaints against Jurassic World and the same complaints against some Marvel movies. I think that these criticisms should be voiced, unless you're interested in watching the same exact movie over and over for 10 years.

AYRT I hate marvel movies and I'm not remotely interested in jurassic world. Generally not much into mainstream action flicks. All I'm saying is that the criticisms that I hear most frequently are just blah, or founded on cliche ideas about "good writing", while behind it there's usually just "waah why didn't this thing happen that I wanted to happen because it would have been so awesome for that to happen! The writers should have made it happen! They're just lazy!!"

this is not an unpopular opinion and it has also been hashed and rehashed to death here

I don't usually read the comments here, but I saw a few comments today and thought I might make a post. If you're not interested in discussing it, I understand.

It was an exciting action movie with likable characters. In that sense, the writing did its job.

Like, the problem I have with the kind of criticism you're making is that it really feels like it's coming from a very formulaic, by-the-numbers, script-software understanding of what makes a character good and what it means for a character to progress. And it just seems to me that the formula in itself is meaningless if the characters are good. And I think that Rey was likable, and I think there's plenty of room for growth in her own self-understanding and self-knowledge if not in her fighting skills.

And basically at the end of the day I was really satisfied with what I saw onscreen - not that it was flawless, of course, there were plenty of things that could have been better, but I really enjoyed it. And so, you know, I don't give a shit about whether it did or did not meet some external marker for What Character Development Means.

SA - I actually read a few of the other responses so I thought that I would expectation-set a little here: I think where a lot of people are coming from is that, like, we're at a point in history where a ton of movie nerds are intimately familiar with the techniques and structures and ideas behind movie scriptwriting, to the point where those ideas can sometimes inform a huge part of the conversation about movies. And I think where people get frustrated is when it feels like those ideas - which are, basically, tools for writing movies, and not really so much critical rules for what makes a movie good or bad - become a dominant part of the conversation about movies. It feels like the conversation is a level removed from the actual experience of watching the movie. And that's very frustrating sometimes.

And so I think that's what people are responding to here - in particular, the way that you're talking about character development sets off a lot of those warning bells, as well as the idea that the plot is "formulaic". And also the whole question about nostalgia is its own super-weighted-down minefield of arguments and assumptions that I don't even want to get into.

So, you know, sorry if people are snapping at you, but I think that's why. I think there's a lot of productive criticisms to be made but, like, I would be really curious about why you thought that Rey specifically didn't work for you, or why you did or did not enjoy the plot. You know what I mean?

+100000000000 to EVERYTHING here.

It frustrates me to no end that people really do not realize that these things are absolutely nothing but tools. They are not rules. They are tools that developed recently and did not exist for stories a long time ago and once people come up with more/better tools to tell stories in the future, they will cease to be relevant. Not that they're bad or anything, but they are entirely optional. Storytelling is very much a conversation between writer and audience, and while it needs a set of conventions for practical reasons, these conventions are very flexible and changeable.

Thank you. I'm "here we go again" anon and you very elaborately said what I felt and would have tried to express if I hadn't been drunk texting from my smartphone

I would hardly call her God-like. She has raw talent, but nothing we haven't already seen from other characters. I think she has a lot of problems and needs to control her power, more than anything else. Kylo Ren is totally unstable, she needs to be the opposite of that.

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[ SECRET POST #3341 ]

I don't think Star Wars: TFA was a well-written movie.

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