fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3349 ]

[ SECRET POST #3349 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3349 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[X/1999]

Notes:

Early today, places to go!

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 060 secrets from Secret Submission Post #479.
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I don't believe Dead Lesbians should be considered a trope anymore. Most lesbians in modern media get happy endings. If a lesbian character dies, she's just a character who died and happened to be a lesbian. I'm pretending to be supportive of my friend who is upset by that show that just killed a lesbian character, but I actually think she and everyone else just need to calm down.

I think it depends on a lot of contextual things in the canon. There are times when it can be done in a way that is offensive(where it's obvious a lesbian character is being 'punished' even if the creator won't admit it)

There are also cases where it's not and where nothing points to the character dying because she was a lesbian. It all depends on context.

I mean hell you could have a story where there's three lesbians and the ones who get to live are the ones who are either celibate and don't date and get to live while they one who dies tries to find a girlfriend, and that would be kinda offensive.

You could have a story that has a bunch of people being killed and one of them happens to be a lesbian but there are other lesbian characters and it's obvious the death would happen because it's a horror flick, and it's just fine.

The third one is the most like what happened on the show everyone's upset about now. Characters die, a lot. The lesbian who died had a partner who's still alive. I think the majority of outraged people hadn't even heard of the show until some mad fans started crying that a lesbian died, not mentioning that dying is normal on that show.

The 100, right?

Go fuck off back tot he Browncoats forum from whence you came, you sad little Whedonite.

I've never seen anything by Whedon.

I don't even get the mental acrobatics required to consider being like Joss Whedon an insult.

F!S in general seems to have a real hate on for him, and it's weird.

I don't think F!S has a hate for him at all. There's just one insane anti-fan who will always bring him up, and whenever anyone mentions Firefly offhand they go into a spitting rage. I know there are plenty of Firefly fans here though.

Ah, so it's mostly that one anon? Good to know.

But isn't there some kind of thing where people have decided he's not really a feminist, and is therefore trash, or something? People on the internet, that is. In real life, all the feminist I've chatted with think Joss Whedon is pretty great. *shrugs*

There is a movement to re-evaluate his works. The problem is Whedon himself is always keen to say he is a feminist rather than waiting for women to say he is one, that pisses women's groups off a lot. Plus his feminist characters, which were feminist in the 1990s, are not the type of feminist that many women are looking for now. Combine the datedness of the latter with the anger at the former and you have the makings of a pretty good backlash.

The Firefly thing is easier to explain, about six or seven years ago there was a meme/fad for casting Firefly characters as characters in other works. It was mostly harmless but some Firefly fans (#NotAllFireflyFans #YesAllFireflyfans) took it too far and kept on it long after the meme had died. That annoyed people. The arguments for Firefly being a lost classic have been re-examined now too, and the general consensus is that its claim to be a classic is actually because it was cancelled early. It never had time to do the padding episodes, or tin-ear for character episodes (Inara to be raped to death by Reavers, for example) that every longer running show does. Plus Fox and tv in general has pretty much eased up on the practice of early cancellations. A lot of the Firefly championing was based on the general anger at that tv trend.

Finally, no it is not just one anon. Not all anon who dislike something you like are the same anon. One of the anons is particularly frothing, but not all objections to Firefly or Joss Whedon's works have been frothing. Many have been polite.

Dead Lesbians sounds like the name of a band. Maybe an all girls' grunge band.

I'd find some friends who don't whine about tropes.

Context is our best friend in this case, methinks.

Please give citations for these "most lesbians in modern media get happy endings" because not seeing it.

I think you're making the mistake of assuming that even if 100% of the lesbian media of 2016 has a happy ending, that somehow makes up for past years of shit. the fact is, it earned its trope status long ago, and there are going to have to be DECADES of lesbian media with happy endings before it becomes an outdated term. I also think it's relevant to the discussion if you or your friend is lesbian themselves?

I don't know I still see the dead lesbian trope pop up quite a lot.

I'm pretty sure I know which show you're talking about. And it's one of those shows that like to pretend 'anyone could die' but let's face it they have a cast they're keeping and other characters are expendable to them. They thought their lesbian character was expendable. It's just been disappointing all round because they've been going for the oldest tricks in the book this season when they could've broken new ground.

In a weird way, that death brought the fandom (which was quite divided, and not just about shipping) together. Unfortunately, it then immediately turned on the showrunner really harshly. Like doxing and death threats level of harsh.

Agreed that everyone needs to calm down.

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[ SECRET POST #3349 ]

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