[ SECRET POST #3354 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3354 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Yu-Gi-Oh]


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09. [ warning for homophobia / transphobia / misogyny take your pick, people seem to be divided on this one ]













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 009 secrets from Secret Submission Post #479.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kallanda_lee]

I dunno, OP. I'm sort of torn on this. It's not okay to deny someone their identity, but then, to a lot of people genitals are a HUGE factor in if they'd have sex with them or not...and that's also okay.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. I was nodding up until the part about lesbians not expressing their love for micropenises. That really rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, why should they if they don't actually love them?

There's two different issues here: 1) accepting the gender identity of trans people, and 2) having a personal sexual interest in a particular set of genitals. Those two things are not dependent on each other.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Is it not erasing the identity of trans men to steadfastly claim you're a lesbian and attracted to them, though?

Is it not exactly the same thing as a man claiming he's still totally straight yo because his trans bf still 'has a vagina'?

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm not sure where you got that from my comment. I agree with the OP that it's wrong to refuse to recognise someone's identity ("I was nodding up until...")

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I think I replied to the wrong comment, my bad.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a lot of it comes down to bad framing tbh

like it's cool to say 'I'm attracted to feminine presentation and vagina on an 'either/or' basis rather than a 'strictly both' basis but the majority of my partners have been women so I feel like lesbian reflects my identity better than bisexual even it's if a little fluid and these particular dudes are hot to me'

but it's a lot less respectful of transmen for someone to say 'I'm SUPER a lesbian but you have a VAGINA that you may or may not be super dysphoric about so I'd TOTALLY HAVE LESBIAN SEX WITH YOU because you don't REEEEALLY count as a man because of your GREAT VAGINA'

which is definitely rude and bullshit

exaggerated, obviously, but I think you get the point

and it's all further complicated by transmen who spent some portion of their adult lives identifying as butch lesbians before transition, and having to navigate that with their partners/friends/support system, so there's a lot of sensitivity to both rejection and minimization of their identity.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, but these people don't appear to be saying 'I'm a lesbian that will bend for trans men' they seem to be saying 'I'm a lesbian and trans men don't make me any less of a lesbian because they are exceptions'. There's a big difference in tone there

'I'm a straight guy that will bend for trans men'
'I'm a straight guy that likes trans men and they have vaginas so I'm still straight'

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, exactly

you have pretty much de-exaggerated my OTT examples, this is what I was trying to get at

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah unfortunately the people that OP are talking about appear to be the latter type

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, this. I understand that this is a sensitive topic, but what people don't or do get hot for is such a personal thing and it's not related to whether or not you respect someone's identity. Some people will only ever go for dicks and some will only ever go for vaginas, and then there's a whole bunch of people who like both, but that's how it is. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what "gay" and "straight" means in this context, I don't know.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe we need to re-evaluate what "gay" and "straight" means in this context, I don't know.

Doing so seems pretty invalidating of transpeople's chosen identities, tho.

[kallanda_lee]

Yeah, but...the problem is people who define themselves as lesbian ALSO have a right to that chosen identity. Just saying, it works both way.

I can also understand that if you're only attracted to cis women and on occasion trans men, but never cis men, that "bi" would feel like a disgenuine label, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If you want to identify as lesbian, that's fine. If you're a lesbian that's into transmen, you're bisexual. I think it's far more degrading to say that a transman isn't really a man than to say maybe someone isn't quite as lesbian as she thought she was.

[kallanda_lee]

Okay, but then you are defining someone sexuality for them.

Look, I'm occasionally into trans women, but I feel calling myself bisexual would be factually untrue.

And not because I have a problem with the term - but because I'm never into cis women, ever, so I'd feel that was more misleading than vice versa.

Edit: Alternatively I could say I'm into people with penises, which I have no issue with, but then you have people whining about objectifcation.

[diet_poison]

This is why I think it's sort of odd that people decided to define sexuality but the gender of the people they're attracted to.

I mean I can see why it came about, but...it's a really imperfect approach.

Maybe one day we can just be at the point where people are interested in who they're interested in and nobody shits a brick over it. But that day will be far into the future I think.

[(Anonymous)]

This is an interesting topic but well ... if we remove it from culture, society, history and such, we are all ugly flesh bags that like to rub on other sweaty flesh bags to their liking :B (or not). It would be awesome and less brick-shitty not to do mental tango to validate that and go past and past of mountains of anything that makes current us.

I like men. I envision them with dicks. But, you can never know who you are attracted to initially, so you can fancy a woman without knowing, in my case. As a gay bloke, nope, if I Johnny Depp came out as a woman - would lose any sparks for him. If Johnny Depp wanted a date and told me he was trans and non-op - suuuureeeee.

But. Sexuality is dynamic, a bag of cats and all that, so ... everything is different to everyone and it's awesome.

[kallanda_lee]

Well, sure. But the terms heterosexual and homosexual were invented anyway - I mean not the behaviors, but the categories, by psychiatrists relatively recently in history. I'd say - of course they're imperfect terms. The problem is we started using them as identities, and at that point people start having strong feelings bout it.

[kallanda_lee]

Exactly...and it's not like, attraction is a clear-cut line. People might get attracted to a trans person who's transitioning to a gender they don't prefer...well, because the body is still telling another story. My ex probably falls into some category of trans or genderqueer, but they were male-presenting when we were together, and that's what I was attracted to. So I'd feel like "straight" is still the correct description of my sexuality (not that I'm hung up on it) - but attraction is messy that way.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

My sexual orientation has absolutely nothing to do with other people's gender identity and everything to do with their primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

[kallanda_lee]

Same here, basically.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeppppppp. Same here.