fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3367 ]

[ SECRET POST #3367 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3367 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #481.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I would naturally assume there's less vaginas being added to male bodies because anal sex exists so that kind of penetration-by-genital is already present.

There is the Omegaverse though, (which sometimes gives a vagina. Sometimes a lubricating asshole. Sometimes something else!) and in TF fandom, the male-coded/designated Transformers are given "valves" by fans which are pretty much vagina analogues. Of course, that's a series where penetration-by-genital isn't already present, but there have been asshole analogues and they aren't as popular. Nor are valve&asshole combos common.

Edited 2016-03-23 23:48 (UTC)

The common thread in all of these is that there is penetrative sex though so it makes sense that straight men would want to add that to f/f stuff, you know what I mean? I think that drives a lot of it

Transformers being given valves that are vaginas for other transformers to penetrate would count as the same thing, adding the ability for penetrative sex

Unless they're eating out valves or something?

Unless they're eating out valves or something?

That happens, and fingering, and anything else you could do with a vagina. It's not just limited to penetrative sex.

At what ratio, though?

Transformers: All Media Types:
Vaginal Fingering tag: 80 fics
Anal fingering tag: 12 fics
Face-Sitting tag: 42 fics
Blowjobs: 113 fics
Cunnilingus: 57 fics
Oral Sex: 707 fics

Tried to stick to tags that would be fairly indicative of the genitals involved and thus good for comparison. Oral sex tag is included to show the total oral that isn't definitely/genital-specifically tagged.

Edited 2016-03-24 00:11 (UTC)

You can never be too thorough with robots' vaginas.

Point me to any fandom that isn't f/f and I can promise you with 99% assurance that penetrative sex is the predominant feature in their smut. You can do a ton of things with dicks but in almost every single m/m fandom its penetration penetration penetration

Transformers might be an outlier because its robots and theyre not human to begin with but if it is, its certainly not representative of the norm

My fandom has plenty of M/M just oral sex or just fingering or even just hand job fics. But it is a pretty small fandom and I've written a good chunk of them myself. I really like writing just oral sex fics.

Yeah small fandoms with one or two authors with prevalent kinks would be different of course. But look at the big ones and tell me there isnt a very obvious trend.

Im not saying its a good trend mind. But to deny an overall trend exists is simply wron

Transformers might be an outlier because its robots and theyre not human to begin with but if it is, its certainly not representative of the norm

It might be an outlier. Penetrative sex could be most common, but it's difficult to tell. There's too many alternatives to sticky (robosex with genitals) like PnP, sparksex, tactile, fieldplay, etc while the sticky tag includes any sex where the bots have genitals, whether it's frottage, oral, valve spanking, etc.

Maybe, but like I said above look at any juggernaut fandom that's not f/f and it's penetration errywhere. MCU, SPN, Teen Wolf, Harry Potter, you name it

There's def a trend overall that penetrative sex is default sex. Which is annoying sometimes but it's there. And that lots of people migrate toward it artificially if necessary by adding penetration methods like dicks on female characters makes sense to me given that context

Maybe, but like I said above look at any juggernaut fandom that's not f/f and it's penetration errywhere.

I checked the SPN fandom: 4079 fic results for "Anal Sex" on Ao3. 6849 fic results for "Oral Sex" on Ao3. Are you sure everyone's as gaga for penetration as you think they are?

Sort it by kudos, and yeah, they are

You said it was "everywhere"--implying that penetration!sex is more common and prolific than other sex. Not that it was more popular. You said it was the most "predominant" feature in the smut. Not that it was the most popular.

That's either goalpost shifting or poor wording.

Edited 2016-03-24 00:23 (UTC)

Not for nothing, but counting purely based on those numbers can be misleading since lots of people don't tag things "anal sex" or "oral sex". "Oral sex" can also apply to het and slash and femmeslash and you haven't accounted for that. Penetrative sex also encompasses more than anal sex since anal sex is not that popular in het ships which do exist in SPN believe it or not. Etc. I get you're trying to make a point but those are bad methods.

I get you're trying to make a point but those are bad methods.

Not really. It's a way to get a quick look at it, not a graph for a thesis paper :P

If you want to control for certain factors, that's easy enough to do, and anyone is welcome to do it and see if it changes things significantly.

It's a bad method because lots of people tag their smut "sex" and you can't determine whether that's penetrative or not.

"Sex": 14645

It doesn't prove anything for or against the point you're trying to make unless you cherrypick. Taking only Oral (all genders) to Anal (predominantly slash) isn't a good comparison. Also doesn't account for the fact that fics that have anal sex usually also have oral sex in them which isn't the focus or is used as buildup for the "main event"

It's a bad method

As opposed to...? There is no perfect method. If there is, feel free to share.

It doesn't prove anything for or against the point you're trying to make unless you cherrypick.

You're assuming I'm trying to prove something. It's just data to analyze.
For SPN:
Anal Sex:
M/M (3909)
F/M (410)
F/F (77)

Oral Sex:
M/M (5830)
F/M (1198)
F/F (207)

Like I said, it's very easy to check the margin of error by gender hookup if you're concerned it's significant. 88% of Anal Sex tagged fics are M/M couples. 80% of Oral Sex tagged fics are M/M couples.

I really don't get you, nonny. You have concerns about the affects of certain factors, but you don't do any work to look into them. Is it lack of curiosity or what?

Edited 2016-03-24 00:42 (UTC)

It's laziness. If you're willing to do the work, how many of those oral sex and anal sex fics are the same fic, and what's the % like if oral sex being buildup to anal sex? How many fics with anal sex in them are tagged "anal sex" and not merely "rough sex" + "top!Castiel" implying penetrative sex w/r/t topping and bottoming?

My point here is that without that kind of data, pointing at numbers of those two tags says nothing of consequence since people do not all use the same tagging system or tag their fics the same way. If you search for the tag "sex" many of the top results are ones that do not contain the tag "anal sex" but do contain "top!X" and "bottom!Y" which implies penetration is happening.

how many of those oral sex and anal sex fics are the same fic

2267 of them.

My point here is

Your point is that the data collection has to be perfect, when data collection never is. Researchers can never control for all factors, and it's not always cost-time effective to do so.

You keep complaining about how this factor or that factor potentially affects the data--okay? So? You can either accept that data collection isn't perfectly representative, or you can just...give up on discussing things, I guess. If you're not willing to accept any kind of data assessment, then there's really nothing to discuss.

"top!X" and "bottom!Y" which implies penetration is happening.

No? That's sometimes about power dynamics. Guess we just better give up on trying to collect information or understand fandom's tastes, because of the wild "might be penetrative, might not" Top!X factor.

Power dynamics are usually dom!X and sub!Y ime.

And no, my point isn't that data collection has to be perfect, it's that the data you are presenting me with does not conclusively prove anything to me. But I feel this conversation has ground to a halt.

The data wasn't meant to prove anything, conclusively or otherwise. I was putting it forth for assessment and input. You chose to get all hung up thinking I was trying to prove something, and so then you tried to nitpick with different factors to show how I couldn't prove anything because the data was too problematic.

If that summary is wrong, then by all means say it. But I don't disagree. You did grind the conversation to a halt.

It takes two sides to grind to a halt, one could argue that posting data that isn't meant to mean anything conclusively or otherwise was where the conversation stalled.

Again, I'm too lazy to bother more than this, though, since it's going nowhere. Have a nice night and I mean that with no sarcasm. =)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3367 ]

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