fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3396 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3396 ⌋

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[Robert DeNiro]

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Am I the only one who doesn't... get that argument?

Not that I don't think there's tons of privileged, snooty douchebags out there who didn't work as hard as they said they did, or who don't understand that not everyone can just work their way up. But plenty of people HAVE overcome adversity. So it's not like it never happens.

It's a stupid argument if someone is actually saying that literally every single person with money got that way from the start, yes

I'm skeptical that's the argument people are making. And the analogous structural/systemic argument has a lot of validity.

No, but its overused and glorified as an example?

Yeah, some people do go from rags to richess. Some of them might indeed have worked hard, or had amazing business plans, or became famous etc.

But, it's more like a lottery (combined with hard work and being good at seeing opportunities).

But, maybe out of a 1000 people who all work equally hard, one will catch a big break. So yeah, it's possible, but it's also possible to work hard all of your life and just get by.

AYRT - Fair enough, it definitely can be glorified when, like you said, that's not the case for everyone.

Given is super easy to go from riches to rags (see lottery multimillionaire winners for example and many, many children of well off parents who don't manage their kids' finances) it's downright stupid. Making money isn't easy. Keeping it is even harder.

Well, in a financialized economy, it's kind of like, "If you have $1000, making $1 million is very hard. If you have $1 million, making $1000 is pretty much inevitable."

It isn't true that EVERYONE who is rich got there from privilege and luck alone, but it gets trotted out as an excuse to spit on poor people - and also, the assertion that working hard is guaranteed to bring about financial success is simply not true. Especially if you're completely ethical.

It's not a guarentee of sucess, but it is an increase in probability of making it if you try rather than doing nothing at all.

It is not true that people who are poor are poor because they are lazy or because they are not hardworking.

However, that's what the narrative is used to imply. Including by you, right now.

DA

AYRT specifically said that there is no "guarantee of success" (i.e. even hard-working poor people can remain poor). So they weren't implying that at poor people are lazy at all.

I mean, I'm definitely reading into it, but it seems like they're very, very insistent on the importance of never letting anyone forget that hard work can help you succeed.

AYRT - Well, yes and no. I think it can, yes, and I don't like that being undermined. That does NOT mean that I don't think poor people work hard, or that all rich people do, for that matter.

The problem with that though is the assumption that what I said somehow contradicts with the notion that hard work increases your chances of success - like they thought it needed to be said in context of my comment. I don't know why else they would do it unless they thought that what I said - "hard work is not a guarantee of success" - somehow also implied "hard work means you can't ever be successful and therefore there is no point in working hard if you are poor". Which is how a lot of people think poor people think.

Your reading comprehension needs work.

Yes and?

like did I say something to imply that poor people are lazy and don't work to try to better their financial situations? Because that's usually not the case. Shoehorning that in here, however, is part of the problem. You're advancing the narrative that hard work = guaranteed success which goes hand-in-hand with the narrative that poor people are poor because they're lazy and frankly it's a terrible cultural attitude.

It's no more true than "This person worked hard and became successful, so that means everyone who isn't successful isn't working hard enough!" Everyone should be encouraged to work to the best of their ability to increase their chances of success, but beyond that, good fortune doesn't really care about fairness or who deserves what.

[ SECRET POST #3396 ]

"Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

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Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

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Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

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Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"

Re: "Hard work isn't real! Everyone with money was privileged from the start!"