Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2016-05-02 06:34 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2016-05-02 06:34 pm
[ SECRET POST #3407 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3407 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
[Star Wars Rebels]
__________________________________________________
03.
[J.K. Rowling/Harry Potter]
__________________________________________________
04.
[omgcp]
__________________________________________________
05.
[Hannibal, Criminal Minds, John Douglas]
__________________________________________________
06.
[The Gamer]
__________________________________________________
07.
[Trailer Park Boys]
__________________________________________________
08.
[Chris Evans]
__________________________________________________
09.
[Old Hollywood, Old Hollywood RPF]
__________________________________________________
10.
[Andrew Lincoln]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 046 secrets from Secret Submission Post #487.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
Discuss away! I will post in the next comment some discussion questions I came up with and then reply to that comment with my own answers to generate discussion. Please, feel free to post your own questions, thoughts, etc.!
Additionally, I'm taking recs for June! I want to apologize again for the delay - I have had ANOTHER personal mini-crisis. This time it's bedbugs in my apartment, which is actually more annoying to deal with than car shopping and maybe almost as time-consuming. I really do want to get to the point where we're doing polls in the first week of the month but it hasn't happened yet. So yeah, recs! POST TITLE AND AUTHOR OR THEY WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED.
Finally, a friendly reminder that we are reading Maurice by E. M. Forster for May! Discussion date TBA.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
+Share your thoughts on the overall story and the characters!
+Who did you think killed Rocco after the murders? Who did you think killed Roger Rabbit? Did those thoughts change over the course of the story?
+Did you suspect anything like what turned out to be the truth about the teakettle? Did you suspect something off-the-wall that was really different from what happened?
+What did you think of the categorization of Toons as a species, and the social stratification that was present in this world's version of Earth? Do you think there was any intended social commentary, or was it just worldbuilding?
+Do you like the way the female characters were written? Do you feel the story was reasonable in its approach to them, or was it sexist?
+What did you think of the twists at the end?
+Did you feel sorry for Roger Rabbit at the beginning? After he died? During the detective work? After the truth came out and the doppel disintegrated?
+Did you ship anything?
+What did you think of the fiasco with Sid Sleaze and Jessica Rabbit? Do you think he actually drugged her, or did she shoot the strip on her own?
+Did you approve of Eddie's decision to kill the genie at the end?
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
I liked it better than I thought I would. It was a pretty easy read (not super short, but not really long or really dense), and a fun adventure.
I think Roger himself and Carol were the most enjoyable and interesting main characters, with a shout-out going to Baby Herman, who I found quite funny. Many of the other characters were obnoxious people but not badly-written characters.
The narration was engaging much of the time but often really overdid it with the similes IMO. The voice and setting were really well-delivered, though.
Who did you think killed Rocco after the murders? Who did you think killed Roger Rabbit? Did those thoughts change over the course of the story?
I myself never suspected Roger of actually killing Rocco, and I think the reason I was so convinced of this is Eddie didn't suspect him, either. I honestly thought Jessica killed both of them for a while, though I wasn't sure and had other suspects. Ironically Roger was the only major character I really ruled out (besides Eddie, of course).
Did you suspect anything like what turned out to be the truth about the teakettle? Did you suspect something off-the-wall that was really different from what happened?
I think as soon as "magic lanterns" were mentioned I realized the teakettle was an artifact of some kind. Before I thought it was either actually solid gold or valuable in some other way monetarily. The way the story was written didn't make me think magic was a real/accepted part of the setting, so I didn't think of that at first. Of course all these other characters were like "magic's not real, dumbass!" but put so close to the end of the story, with the teakettle taking more and more of the spotlight, that just convinced me that it was magic. Didn't see the genie thing coming though.
What did you think of the categorization of Toons as a species, and the social stratification that was present in this world's version of Earth? Do you think there was any intended social commentary, or was it just worldbuilding?
I thought it was one of the most interesting aspects of the whole story, though I couldn't say if I think there's intentional social commentary. I loved the way they were written, with their animalistic features and habits worked into the way their characters presented. I wonder if humanoid toons basically looked like humans or if people could usually tell the difference. Jessica Rabbit was obviously lusted after by humans, but could they still tell she wasn't one?
The thought/word bubbles thing was pretty entertaining (especially when Roger's word bubble emitted its own mini-bubble after falling to the floor, and the gun emitting a "bang" word bubble in his kitchen). It was hard to imagine them not actually speaking aloud though. I sort of thought of them as speaking aloud while simultaneously projecting their words into bubbles, but I think the book contradicted that and implied that those who did not suppress their bubbles usually didn't speak with an audible voice.
Do you like the way the female characters were written? Do you feel the story was reasonable in its approach to them, or was it sexist?
I thought Jessica was very stereotyped, but I think the author redeemed himself a bit with Carol. If Jessica had been the only female character I think the story would have felt really sexist to me. As it is though it didn't really ping me that way, at least not overtly, more like reflecting the time period the setting was supposed to imitate. It's worth noting it did not pass the Beckdel test (that I recall) and there were only two major female characters.
Carol was really interesting to me. It's a shame she turned out the way she did but I'm not really surprised. She's talented, hard-working, kind, strong-willed without being obnoxoius - and of course, quite fallible. Her treatment by Rocco and Dominick was really bad, but her "retaliation" was not, in my opinion, ethically justified. I had a suspicion for a while that she would turn out to have done something awful, and for a while I thought it was she who killed Rocco, which would have made me sad (I sort of shipped her with Eddie for a while because I'm a sucker for tropey setups like that). When her scam came out I was disappointed in her, but not in her character. It was well set-up. The way she stuck up for Roger was really sweet; it's too bad she turned out to be kinda rotten!
What did you think of the twists at the end?
I was impressed by them in general, though I found the genie to be rather contrived. He was super stereotypical, not well-developed, and rushed. Roger turning out to be Rocco's actual killer was the best twist and about the last thing I would have guessed.
Did you feel sorry for Roger Rabbit at the beginning? After he died? During the detective work? After the truth came out and the doppel disintegrated?
Yes, to varying degrees. I mostly felt sorry for him because he had this enormous blind spot when it came to Jessica, made worse by the fact that (unbeknownst to him) she was magicked into temporarily falling in love with him, so her words and actions during that time would have been completely sincere. It was sweet that he made Eddie soup and the way their friendship developed. The way he was treated by Eddie's friends made me feel pretty sorry for him (and I hope it was a wake-up call for Eddie).
I have to wonder why he asked Eddie to look into his case knowing he'd find out the real answer about Rocco. I suppose as a doppel he had nothing to lose.
Did you ship anything?
I sort of shipped Eddie and Carol for a while but I'm not really disappointed that didn't pan out. I very much did NOT ship Eddie and Jessica and cringed a little when she kissed him. Blech.
What did you think of the fiasco with Sid Sleaze and Jessica Rabbit? Do you think he actually drugged her, or did she shoot the strip on her own?
I honestly don't know, personally. I don't remember if that was definitively indicated in the story. I'm inclined to think because of the way it was written that Jessica did it voluntarily, because she's very deceptive by nature and also strikes me as rather vain. But it could go either way. It was interesting to me that Sleaze was presented as being a sympathetic character rather than a total slimeball, but of course he could very well be one anyway. And I'm not inclined to trust men who make money by selling porn of women coughHughHefnercough.
Did you approve of Eddie's decision to kill the genie at the end?
Personally I did not, though it hinges on whether the genie could be trusted not to try to continue killing people/actually take over countries/etc. Eddie's actions at the end were really shitty as a whole, but sort of understandable. If the genie was capable of shooting more people on a lark, getting rid of him was the right thing to do, but I'm not keen on the kind of deception Eddie used on him first.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
I thought this was a good choice for book club. It was a fairly condensed story and an easy read. I liked the twists throughout, it definitely kept me guessing all the way through (I did not see the whole genie twist). I really enjoyed the characters. I may not have liked the characters, but I thought they were actually developed and had individual personalities. There have been too many stories where I can't tell the difference in who they are talking to or what's going on.
+Who did you think killed Rocco after the murders? Who did you think killed Roger Rabbit? Did those thoughts change over the course of the story?
I am terrible at mysteries and generally don't figure things out until the end. The story definitely kept me guessing as more and more was revealed.
+Did you suspect anything like what turned out to be the truth about the teakettle? Did you suspect something off-the-wall that was really different from what happened?
I suspected that the teakettle had some sort of magical power, but I thought it was more every time they brewed something, the drink had magical properties.
+What did you think of the categorization of Toons as a species, and the social stratification that was present in this world's version of Earth? Do you think there was any intended social commentary, or was it just worldbuilding?
I liked the Toons as a species and felt it added a lot to the story. It avoided racism and I think that's what the Toons portrayed instead.
+Do you like the way the female characters were written? Do you feel the story was reasonable in its approach to them, or was it sexist?
I feel like there weren't really enough female characters and that Jessica Rabbit was more of a caricature, she was not a strong woman and basically switched her position based on what was needed in the story at the time.
+What did you think of the twists at the end?
I sort of felt like it was a bit rushed with the genie, but otherwise it seemed to lead to a good conclusion.
+Did you feel sorry for Roger Rabbit at the beginning? After he died? During the detective work? After the truth came out and the doppel disintegrated?
I felt sorry for Roger Rabbit because he really did love Jessica and was just a pawn in the genie's game because he had no idea what had happened with his first two wishes.
+What did you think of the fiasco with Sid Sleaze and Jessica Rabbit? Do you think he actually drugged her, or did she shoot the strip on her own?
Based on Jessica, it wouldn't surprise me if she did it on her own because she wasn't very honest throughout the story and kept changing her tune.
+Did you approve of Eddie's decision to kill the genie at the end?
I did, mostly because it gave a finality to the story.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
I don't think I have ever successfully cracked a mystery on my own. It's ok though, I like the reveal! (I don't read many mystery novels, either.)
Do you feel the Toons avoided racism from the author's point of view, or the characters? Because I think there was clearly a lot of racism going on in the story, but it was portrayed as a negative thing. It was actually pretty well-written IMO.
Also I agree with much of your overall assessment. :) Except I didn't guess the teakettle was magic until the subject of magic was brought up in the last quarter or so of the book, so good job on that!
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
I think that the racism was avoided as being blacks vs whites and instead it was Toons vs humans and it was definitely segregated.
I thought there was something suspicious about the magic lamp, especially when they mentioned Persian writing.
I did like this book overall and thought it was a good choice for the book club. There wasn't anything really triggering, there's a lot of discussion on it but it was still a fairly short read. (I liked Neal Stephenson's Seveneves but the book is something like 800+ pages and ridiculously dense)
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
It was indicated (if not confirmed) that Toons and humans couldn't interbreed, so I guess they'd be different species. Still, it gave me a similar vibe to historic racism, though not portrayed as being extremely serious.
I kinda think it was intentional, and there's not necessarily a real-world parallel for Toons. Just a good bit of worldbuilding.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 11:45 pm (UTC)(link)I really liked the worldbuilding in the book where the author didn't just throw random facts at you, you slowly learned about the world as the novel went on.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
I have to say the book was a definitely enjoyable and I'd recommend it for another book club read. It lends itself for discussions quite easily.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 12:18 am (UTC)(link)I liked them. Story was tightly paced, good world building, plot wasn't too convoluted. Characters were a little cliche noir, but that's what they were going for, I think.
+Who did you think killed Rocco after the murders? Who did you think killed Roger Rabbit? Did those thoughts change over the course of the story?
I thought Masters was so obviously the love interest, so I was thinking she did, or her and Roger did it. When you found out what she was really up to I reached the conclusion that Roger and his dopple were working together alone.
+Did you suspect anything like what turned out to be the truth about the teakettle? Did you suspect something off-the-wall that was really different from what happened?
With all the rape wank that started up on here around this suggestion, I thought the Kettle brewed a mind control drink or some such.
+What did you think of the categorization of Toons as a species, and the social stratification that was present in this world's version of Earth? Do you think there was any intended social commentary, or was it just worldbuilding?
Kinda both. People are shitty to other people in a noir story, so it makes nothing but sense that toons would be treat like crap. I don't think it was a specific allegory, more just a general statement on how crappy people are. A statement that both fits with the Noir elements the writer was trying to invoke, but also served the added bonus of Framing Eddie as a comparatively innocent soul.
+Do you like the way the female characters were written? Do you feel the story was reasonable in its approach to them, or was it sexist?
I like Carol. I still lusted after Jessica, but she wasn't a great example of how women should be portrayed. But then she was the other noir staple: The femme fatale. She was about as reasonably approached as any femme fatale is. I still prefer Movie version, tho. I did not like Eddie punching her out.
+What did you think of the twists at the end?
Honestly pretty good. I was half expecting the added twist of Roger still being alive at the end, but it wasn't that kind of story. I was pretty surprised that the planned on framing eddie for it. did not see the Genie thing coming.
+Did you feel sorry for Roger Rabbit at the beginning? After he died? During the detective work? After the truth came out and the doppel disintegrated?
I found him too annoying and cartoonish to feel sorry for at the beginning. I felt really bad for the doppel, though.
+Did you ship anything?
Jessica and Roger, Mostly as a throwback to the movie, tho. Eddie and Carol could have been good, but it wasn't to be.
+What did you think of the fiasco with Sid Sleaze and Jessica Rabbit? Do you think he actually drugged her, or did she shoot the strip on her own?
I think we're supposed to believe Jessica is a lying whore who will say and do whatever is convenient at the time. I think the writer of the book has such a low opinion of her, and women in general, That he probably wrote it as her consenting to the shoot, then lying about it later.
+Did you approve of Eddie's decision to kill the genie at the end?
Yes, There was no other way to stop it.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
Yeah, I agree, and I rather liked it. I guess I'm a fan of that particular setting.
I thought Masters was so obviously the love interest
It seemed that way to me too at the beginning, so even though I enjoyed the dynamic and wouldn't have minded it being canon, I kinda liked that it wasn't if only because it was a bit of a subversion. A story doesn't NEED a romance with the MC, ya know?
When you found out what she was really up to I reached the conclusion that Roger and his dopple were working together alone.
You figured out a helluva lot more than I did, anon. |D
With all the rape wank that started up on here around this suggestion, I thought the Kettle brewed a mind control drink or some such.
Speaking of, where did that even come from? I'm still not sure. At first I thought maybe Sleaze potentially drugging Jessica? But that wasn't portrayed as positive so how would it be rape apology? Now, though, I wonder if it's because Roger "tricked" Jessica into marrying him. I can't call it rape though because he had no idea what was going on and genuinely believed she loved him, to the very end. There was no question of consent on his part. And of course sex was never talked about, but it is implied with the whole "marriage" thing, true.
(Anyone want to weigh in on this?)
but also served the added bonus of Framing Eddie as a comparatively innocent soul.
Comparatively, maybe, but he was no saint. He was complex and morally gray, which I liked about him and the way it colored the narration. It was clear that Eddie's views =/= the author's views; he did a good job. And I think he was also prejudiced against Toons, just maybe not as overtly so as some other humans. Interestingly, I wonder if the events of the story made him mature in that regard, though finding out at the end that his new best Toon friend was a killer who completely pulled the wool over his eyes, and that his Toon lust interest was a two-faced selfish ass (which was pretty obvious throughout but still), might have set it back a bit. IDK.
I was half expecting the added twist of Roger still being alive at the end, but it wasn't that kind of story.
Roger's doppel's "death" was one of the best-written moments in the story tbh.
Jessica and Roger, Mostly as a throwback to the movie, tho.
Man, you're making me want to watch the movie!
I think we're supposed to believe Jessica is a lying whore who will say and do whatever is convenient at the time. I think the writer of the book has such a low opinion of her, and women in general, That he probably wrote it as her consenting to the shoot, then lying about it later.
I wondered about this - the idea of purity being equated with goodness was so strong in the book (I mean, it's a thing IRL too but so strong as to be taken for granted in this setting) and I have to wonder if that was part of the setting, or projection by the author. Do you think Wolf is sexist? I don't know anything about the man himself.
Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 08:05 am (UTC)(link)Re: ~BOOK CLUB MAY DISCUSSION: Who Censored Roger Rabbit~