fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3422 ]

I agree. But people also have to realize that there's a difference between wondering is your average seventeen-year-old asexual-identifying person has explored other potential underlying causes, and asking someone who's thirty-five and identifies as asexual.

Asking someone who's thirty-five and asexual whether they've "really considered all the possibilities" is condescending as fuck.

Asking someone who's thirty-five and asexual whether they've "really considered all the possibilities" is condescending as fuck.

Yep. I'm still a few years from 35 but I'm still old enough to know who I am and people constantly questioning me is annoying as fuck. I have no medical or hormonal issues of any kind (I've been tested because of some things that run in my family), and there's a user here who's accused me of lying about it several times in the past because they don't believe someone can be asexual without having some kind of medical problem. It's incredibly frustrating.

I hear you. I'm actually a few years shy of 35 myself. I just didn't want to use my own age as the measuring stick, you know?

there's a user here who's accused me of lying about it several times in the past because they don't believe someone can be asexual without having some kind of medical problem.

There seem to be a few people (pretty much all anons) on F!S who are surprisingly dickish and hostile about ace issues. I mean, if this weren't the internet, or if this were a more conservative website, it wouldn't be surprising at all, I would thoroughly expect it. But the hostility sticks out a bit more on a com like this one.

There seem to be a few people (pretty much all anons) on F!S who are surprisingly dickish and hostile about ace issues. I mean, if this weren't the internet, or if this were a more conservative website, it wouldn't be surprising at all, I would thoroughly expect it. But the hostility sticks out a bit more on a com like this one.

I just don't understand it. The person I'm talking about was a named user (though they've been accused of trolling enough that maybe I shouldn't take them seriously) but yeah, there are a ton of anons who say that kind of shit. It seems like in general people used to be a lot nicer and less judgmental here, so I don't know what happened.

We got sick of asexuals and their fucking whiny histrionic bullshit.

Oddly, you seem to be the whiny one.

Fuck you

You checked to make sure your sexuality is your sexuality, not a symptom of something. Due diligence done. Don't let the rest of us get you down.

Asking someone who's thirty-five and asexual whether they've "really considered all the possibilities" is condescending as fuck.

Fun fact: many people don't get diagnosed with major medical issues that can affect sex drive and attraction (thyroid problems especially) until after 30.

Less fun fact: People over 30 are also sometimes, rarely, just confused about their sexuality. It's not common, but it's a thing that happens. So if we're going to talk about things that rarely but occasionally turn someone's stated sexuality on its ear, I think we need to acknowledge that those things exist for gay, bi, and straight people as well as ace people.

But when a grown ass adult person tells you they're gay, or bi, or straight for that matter, you don't (unless you're an asshole) ask them if they're absolutely sure about it. You don't say, "So hey! I know that occasionally there will be a person who will go through a decade or two of their life believing they're X but then realizes they're actually Y, so are you absolutely sure you're really X and not Y? Because I would be really, really annoyed if I believed you about being X and you turned out NOT to be. Believing you and then finding out you weren't X after all would have such a huge negative effect on my life. So it's important to me that you are absolutely sure about this before I will believe you."

No. You give them the benefit of the doubt that they know themselves and have considered the issue from all the angles, since it's - you know - their issue and everything.

If you can't tell the difference between "claiming a sexuality that happens to be a major medical symptom" and "maybe possibly might have a sexuality more fluid than they thought", there's no help for you.

Thank you. Sexuality being fluid is a different thing entirely from claiming something (lack of attraction/desire for sex) as a sexuality that also happens to be a symptom of a whole shitload of quiet medical problems (or even a side effect of medication; antidepressants are notorious for this).

Okay. I'm honestly not trying to be mean here, and I'm really sorry if I come across that way because it's hard to read someone's intentions over the internet. But.

Maybe some people do think they're asexual and they turn out to have a medical issue and it's treated, and they realize they weren't. There are also plenty of people whose asexuality ISN'T because of some disorder, it's just how they are. And, like someone else mentioned elsewhere in the thread, what if it's caused by something that can't be fixed? Why can't they use the word if it helps them?

Regardless of the case, I don't see how it's any of your concern. Again, I'm not trying to be mean here, but let people deal with their health on their own, and don't just assume they must have some kind of medical problem when you know nothing else about them.

Personally, as someone who considers themselves asexual and doesn't have any medical problems (although I do have a sex DRIVE, which is different than sexual attraction but I'm not going into that because no matter how many times it's said people don't seem to get it), it's really annoying constantly hearing "oh, there must be something medically wrong with you!" because it's yet another reminded of "you're not normal!" and that just gets really old.

I don't think you're being mean. I think you're being ridiculous, overly defensive, and willfully obtuse.

Personally, as someone who considers themselves asexual and doesn't have any medical problems (although I do have a sex DRIVE, which is different than sexual attraction but I'm not going into that because no matter how many times it's said people don't seem to get it), it's really annoying constantly hearing "oh, there must be something medically wrong with you!" because it's yet another reminded of "you're not normal!" and that just gets really old.

1) unless you have had tests done, you don't know if you have any medical problems. The point people are making is that many of these conditions are very subtle, and getting diagnosed is difficult precisely because the symptoms (of which low sex drive and no attraction to anyone is one) are so vague that many people just write them off and think nothing of it.

2) Nobody has said "there must be something medically wrong with you." What people have said is "there might be something medically wrong with you, and it would be better to get that checked out before you decide to just write it off as normal."

I say this as someone who did identify as asexual for years, and had your exact attitude. And now that I'm on an antidepressant and thyroid medication? Wonder of wonders, I really am a lesbian. What I was writing off as "asexuality" was really "major depression and a malfunctioning thyroid."

If I had stayed on the asexuality train and still tried to convince myself this was normal, I'd likely be dead (my thyroid is so awful at doing its job that I'm on twice the average dose of replacement hormone, and that may even go up in 3 months). If not dead, then at the least very, very miserable.

I don't think you're being mean. I think you're being ridiculous, overly defensive, and willfully obtuse.

I don't see how I'm being ridiculous; maybe I'm being somewhat defensive because people trying to tell other people what to do when it doesn't affect them annoys me; and I don't see having a different opinion than you means I'm willfully obtuse. I also don't appreciate being insulted when I was trying to be polite, but whatever.

1) unless you have had tests done, you don't know if you have any medical problems.

I have (for unrelated reasons), and all my hormone levels and thyroid function are normal.

2) Nobody has said "there must be something medically wrong with you." What people have said is "there might be something medically wrong with you, and it would be better to get that checked out before you decide to just write it off as normal."

And my point is that it's really not your place to give strangers health advice (someone close to you that you're worried about, I get, but not random people on the internet). That's something they can discuss it with their doctor. If they identify as asexual, I guarantee you are not the first person to suggest they might have a medical issue, and one more person saying it is not going to achieve anything other than annoying them further. And I don't think anyone has ever written it off as normal. It's decidedly NOT normal, but that also doesn't mean that there's NECESSARILY anything wrong with it.

I say this as someone who did identify as asexual for years, and had your exact attitude. And now that I'm on an antidepressant and thyroid medication? Wonder of wonders, I really am a lesbian. What I was writing off as "asexuality" was really "major depression and a malfunctioning thyroid."

My "exact attitude" of what? That I prefer to live and let live and not concern myself with aspects of other people's lives that don't affect me? Do you also go around telling everyone you see smoking that they're going to die of cancer? They know the risks, and they choose to do it anyway, and if they want to do it alone in their house by themselves and not around other people that would be affected by it, then I really don't give a damn. Yes, there's the chance that someone who identifies as asexual might actually have some medical condition, but again, I guarantee you they've heard that before and know it's a possibility. If they're an adult, what they choose to do with that information is up to them. Since it doesn't affect you, I don't see why you feel the need to be one more person telling them something they've already heard a dozen times, but obviously we see things differently.

If I had stayed on the asexuality train and still tried to convince myself this was normal, I'd likely be dead (my thyroid is so awful at doing its job that I'm on twice the average dose of replacement hormone, and that may even go up in 3 months). If not dead, then at the least very, very miserable.

Considering that you decided to go get checked out medically, and that you'd be "very, very miserable" without treatment, I'm guessing you probably had other symptoms, and I think in most cases there'd be more symptoms than JUST not being interested in sex. And again, I know sex DRIVE is often a symptom of a medical issue, but I've never heard of someone having a sex drive but no sexual ATTRACTION and that being a symptom of something. Did you have a lack of sexual ATTRACTION before getting treatment and you did afterward? I've never heard anything like that (and read and researched a ton about asexuality and sex drive).

You're being ridiculous and overly defensive for dismissing even the notion that asexuality could be caused by a medical problem. And you're being willfully obtuse by responding to arguments that nobody has actually made.

And my point is that it's really not your place to give strangers health advice (someone close to you that you're worried about, I get, but not random people on the internet). That's something they can discuss it with their doctor. If they identify as asexual, I guarantee you are not the first person to suggest they might have a medical issue, and one more person saying it is not going to achieve anything other than annoying them further. And I don't think anyone has ever written it off as normal. It's decidedly NOT normal, but that also doesn't mean that there's NECESSARILY anything wrong with it.

It may not be "my place" but if it gets someone concerned enough to get themselves checked out, I don't see why that's a bad thing. In the age of social media? A LOT of people first get the idea that all may not be well by listening to other people who have the same symptoms. And this goes double for when those symptoms are difficult and embarrassing to talk about, as sexuality often is.

And if you don't think anyone has ever written it off as normal, go spend an hour on the AVEN boards.

My "exact attitude" of what? That I prefer to live and let live and not concern myself with aspects of other people's lives that don't affect me?

No. Your exact overly defensive "I;M ASEXUAL, NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH ME, THAT'S JUST THE WAY I AM, DAMMIT!" attitude. I used to think like that. I used to fly off the handle every time someone even suggested there could be anything medically off. I paid for it dearly because that attitude caused me to delay treatment for years.

I have (for unrelated reasons), and all my hormone levels and thyroid function are normal.

Then you really are being overly defensive and ridiculous because none of this applies to you anyway.

Considering that you decided to go get checked out medically, and that you'd be "very, very miserable" without treatment, I'm guessing you probably had other symptoms, and I think in most cases there'd be more symptoms than JUST not being interested in sex. And again, I know sex DRIVE is often a symptom of a medical issue, but I've never heard of someone having a sex drive but no sexual ATTRACTION and that being a symptom of something. Did you have a lack of sexual ATTRACTION before getting treatment and you did afterward? I've never heard anything like that (and read and researched a ton about asexuality and sex drive).

Later on, there were other symptoms. But complete lack of attraction or desire was the first and only symptom for many, many years. Had I not been so stupidly defensive of my identity, I could've been treated years ago and nipped it in the bud instead of waiting until it got to be too debilitating to ignore.

You're being ridiculous and overly defensive for dismissing even the notion that asexuality could be caused by a medical problem. And you're being willfully obtuse by responding to arguments that nobody has actually made.

I'm not dismissing the notion that it could be caused by a medical problem, I've said several times in my comments that I know it could be. I'm just saying that most people who identify as asexual already know that it's a possibility and that continuing to tell them doesn't achieve anything but to annoy them.

It may not be "my place" but if it gets someone concerned enough to get themselves checked out, I don't see why that's a bad thing. In the age of social media? A LOT of people first get the idea that all may not be well by listening to other people who have the same symptoms. And this goes double for when those symptoms are difficult and embarrassing to talk about, as sexuality often is.

"In the age of social media" is exactly why I'm saying you SHOULDN'T keep going around telling people they must have a medical issue. BECAUSE of social media and the internet, they've already come across the idea that maybe they have a medical issue. I've never met a single person who identifies as asexual who HASN'T done a ton of internet research before eventually deciding they were asexual. They don't need one more person suggesting it, when they've heard it so many times already. And if someone thinks sexuality is "difficult and embarrassing to talk about" I doubt they'd be openly identifying as asexual and discussing it on the internet.

I suppose someone who has issues with their sex drive but never really looked into it could happen to read what you're saying and realize they might need to get checked out. But if they identify as asexual, a word that isn't really known outside of the internet, there's a good chance they've already done a bunch of research on the topic, found out that a medical issue could be a possibility, looked into it, and realized that wasn't the case.

And if you don't think anyone has ever written it off as normal, go spend an hour on the AVEN boards.

I haven't been there in years and didn't stick around very long, so I'll take your word on it.

No. Your exact overly defensive "I;M ASEXUAL, NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH ME, THAT'S JUST THE WAY I AM, DAMMIT!" attitude. I used to think like that. I used to fly off the handle every time someone even suggested there could be anything medically off. I paid for it dearly because that attitude caused me to delay treatment for years.

I'm not saying that at all. You accused me of being deliberately obtuse before, but I really think if anyone is, it's you. I'm not saying that nothing could be wrong with someone who's asexual. I've acknowledged several times that it could be a symptom of a medical condition. I'm just saying that when it comes to other people, it shouldn't matter to you whether they're asexual because of a medical problem or not. Nowadays, everyone who's even heard of asexuality, and certainly anyone who identifies that way, has definitely heard the asexuality=medical problem correlation. And if they've heard that and they still choose not to do anything about it, it's their choice.

Then you really are being overly defensive and ridiculous because none of this applies to you anyway.

No, but I know plenty of people it does apply to, and they shouldn't have to deal with people constantly giving them shit about it. Also, just because it doesn't apply to me doesn't mean I don't still get people assuming it does, when they know nothing about me, or just flat out accuse me of lying when I tell them there's nothing medically wrong with me. Do I need to carry copies of my bloodwork around to whip out whenever people start giving me a hard time? It's just really fucking annoying and frustrating constantly hearing the same stuff over and over and over again.

Later on, there were other symptoms. But complete lack of attraction or desire was the first and only symptom for many, many years. Had I not been so stupidly defensive of my identity, I could've been treated years ago and nipped it in the bud instead of waiting until it got to be too debilitating to ignore.

Again, I'm talking about JUST attraction. You had a sex drive, right? You just weren't attracted to anyone, and that was your only symptom? And then after you were treated you suddenly started being attracted to people? Because I'm still not entirely sure we're even talking about the same thing.

And again, I'm not saying that it's impossible for asexuality to be caused by a medical issue because I've said multiple times that it can be. Just that it isn't ALWAYS. I'm talking about, whenever someone says they're asexual, not immediately assuming they have a medical issue and that that possibility has never occurred to them. Just say ok, and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've ruled out other things and they know who they are. Ten years ago I probably would've said sure, you should tell them, because it was much less known back then. But again, nowadays I don't think there's anyone who identifies as asexual who is not already aware of the fact that they could have a medical issue.

Even if it had turned out I did have a medical issue that was treated and I didn't feel asexual anymore, I wouldn't go around telling everyone else who identifies that way that they might have a medical problem just because I did, because I realize that my experience does not equal everyone else's, and it comes across as condescending, IMO.

But obviously we see things differently.

I'm just saying that when it comes to other people, it shouldn't matter to you whether they're asexual because of a medical problem or not. Nowadays, everyone who's even heard of asexuality, and certainly anyone who identifies that way, has definitely heard the asexuality=medical problem correlation. And if they've heard that and they still choose not to do anything about it, it's their choice.

Unless they've only heard it from AVEN and Tumblr, sites that are adamant that asexuality is 100% normal and even suggesting it could be a symptom of a major medical issue is "triggering." I don't care that you think it's "not my place." If what I say helps someone out of the fucking echo chamber and into treatment for an underlying disorder, I think it's worth it. Sometimes, hearing it once isn't enough. I had to hear it a shitload of times before I finally accepted that maybe, just maybe, those people were on to something.

More to the point, suggesting someone get checked out isn't hurting anybody. If they already have? Great. If they decide not to? Up to them. But to use your argument, I don't know if they've heard that point of view before, and I'm not about to assume they have.

You had a sex drive, right? You just weren't attracted to anyone, and that was your only symptom? And then after you were treated you suddenly started being attracted to people? Because I'm still not entirely sure we're even talking about the same thing.

No, I did not. I had no sex drive, and I was not attracted to anyone. And for a while (8-10 years), that was my only symptom that I noticed. Once I started treatment after the other symptoms manifested (or really, after I noticed them), I had a sex drive again (I'd had one in my teens before my body and mind started falling apart), and I was attracted exclusively to women.

Even if it had turned out I did have a medical issue that was treated and I didn't feel asexual anymore, I wouldn't go around telling everyone else who identifies that way that they might have a medical problem just because I did, because I realize that my experience does not equal everyone else's, and it comes across as condescending, IMO.

But obviously we see things differently.

Then perhaps you need to take your own advice and shut up when the discussion doesn't concern you.

Edited 2016-05-19 03:41 (UTC)

Unless they've only heard it from AVEN and Tumblr, sites that are adamant that asexuality is 100% normal and even suggesting it could be a symptom of a major medical issue is "triggering." I don't care that you think it's "not my place." If what I say helps someone out of the fucking echo chamber and into treatment for an underlying disorder, I think it's worth it. Sometimes, hearing it once isn't enough. I had to hear it a shitload of times before I finally accepted that maybe, just maybe, those people were on to something.

Fair enough. I was thinking of the people I know, who've done a ton of research on the subject, but if they only go on Tumblr (again, I haven't been to AVEN in years so I don't know what it's like these days, but I know what Tumblr's like) where people tell them there's definitely not anything wrong with them then I get your point.

More to the point, suggesting someone get checked out isn't hurting anybody. If they already have? Great. If they decide not to? Up to them. But to use your argument, I don't know if they've heard that point of view before, and I'm not about to assume they have.

Alright. That's entirely your right, and I shouldn't have said you shouldn't say anything. People who've heard it a bunch will probably be annoyed, but you're right, if they've only been to Tumblr then they might not have heard it, and you could help them.

No, I did not. I had no sex drive, and I was not attracted to anyone. And for a while (8-10 years), that was my only symptom that I noticed. Once I started treatment after the other symptoms manifested (or really, after I noticed them), I had a sex drive again (I'd had one in my teens before my body and mind started falling apart), and I was attracted exclusively to women.

That's an entirely different situation than I'm talking about, which is why is I kept stressing the distinction between sex drive and sexual attraction, which I guess is part of the problem with asexuality as a label, because there's no clear cut definition.

Then perhaps you need to take your own advice and shut up when the discussion doesn't concern you.

Obviously I've upset you, and I'm sorry. I'll stop now.

Did you have a lack of sexual ATTRACTION before getting treatment and you did afterward?

Yes, I did. Sexual attraction and sex drive are tied together for a lot of people. If you don't have any sex drive, you're not going to be looking at people from a sexual standpoint. I would think that people were attractive, but not in a sexual way, because I didn't have any sort of interest in sex (thanks thyroid). Once I started getting that treated, suddenly I had an sex drive, and with that came the ability to be sexually attracted to people.

Same with me. It was a double-whammy of severely underactive thyroid and major depression. Kinda hard to feel attracted to anyone when you're constantly exhausted and thinking you're worthless.

person from above

That makes sense, and I totally get that for people who aren't asexual you can't separate sex drive from sexual attraction, everyone I've talked to who isn't asexual feels that way. But they're totally different things for asexual people (well, at least me and the ones I know, obviously I don't know how every person who identifies as asexual feels). For me, and the people I know, we DO have a sex drive, we just aren't sexually attracted to anyone...we have a sex drive, we do have that desire, it's just not directed at anyone. I've heard it described as being like you're hungry but there's no food that sounds good.

If you have the lack of attraction AND a lack of drive/desire, then yeah, you might have a medical issue, but if you have the drive/desire and you're just not attracted to anyone that's an entirely different thing. I imagine if you go to the doctor and say "I have a sex drive, but I just don't ever meet anyone I'm attracted to" they're probably going to laugh and say you're just picky or you haven't met the right person or something.

And technically that (a lack of sexual ATTRACTION, not drive or desire) is all that asexuality is. At least that's the official definition, though I don't really like it because it leaves way too much room for confusion. I use it, though, because it's pretty much the only word there is that's somewhat accurate, but I do wish there was a better one that was clearer and less likely to be misunderstood.

Even more fun fact: disorders that have lack of desire/sexual attraction as a symptom are way the hell more common than you think.

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