fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3426 ]

[ SECRET POST #3426 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3426 ⌋

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[Renaud (French singer)]

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I think ultra-liberals who shame women for reading and enjoying things like Twilight and 50 Shades, and treating those women like dumb idiots who are too stupid to separate fantasy and reality and have no idea what rape is, are really the 21st century version of anti-porn puritans. They are slut-shaming, kink-shaming, and treating women like idiots.

I absolutely do not like either book - they aren't gay enough for me - but seriously, dollar romance novels have had worse in them. Sure, let's have conversations about what consent means, but let people read whatever dumb sex fantasies they want to read.

I agree.

And now I'm just waiting on that one asshole anon to come along and compare us both to dumb rednecks who don't want our guns taken away or something.

I think it's less shame and more assumption. Like they forget actual people read those books. I did it when I was in the Twilight hatedom - I assumed every normal person I knew or came across also hated them. Oops.

I've never read "50 Shades", but I read one of the "Twilight" books and it wasn't my thing...but I still completely agree with this sentiment. Those series are far from the first ones to feature relationships that many would find questionable, nor will they be the last. And even if they didn't exist, fucked up relationship would still be a thing in the real world. So I don't get why people got all bent out of shape about these series, or why they got so judgey towards people who liked them.

(deleted comment)

It's a romance fantasy. A ultra-rich, ultra-handsome, super dreamy guy or ultra-handsome, ultra-mysterious powerful vampire takes a special interest in you and plays on a number of kinks and things that are romantic in fantasy.

Most women probably wouldn't think it were romantic if just any guy did it, no. These aren't really interchangeable ideas with "some bozo off the street" vs. Edward Cullen or Christian Grey doing it.

And that BDSM characterization is perfectly fine, for a cheap sex fantasy novel.

I deleted my comment before I saw yours because I felt it didn't respond properly to the OP, but I didn't want to leave your comment stranded.

The problem is people absolutely do believe it and that's not healthy.

'The only reason he likes BDSM is because he's broken and he can be fixed' is horrible for any novel when BDSM has so little positive focus in media or fiction.

Ugh I always post before I've actually finished my thought. The problem is not that 50 Shades and Twilight exist and are enjoyed. I enjoy Twilight, it's like junk food but for books. The problem is when these things are presented as accurate or as ideas to aspire to.

I mean, I can agree with that. I totally support having conversations about what is and isn't healthy in a relationship, and what is and isn't okay, and even what BDSM should be.

I just don't think it was 50 Shade's job to be an educational manual on BDSM, and I think people have pushed responsibility and blame on a dumb erotic novel when they should realize it's just a dumb erotic novel. I can understand the frustration that 50 Shades has perhaps popularized BDSM, and in a way that actually shows unhealthy dynamics, but I think it's important to treat these kinds of books for what they are and not act like they are failed mouthpieces for any sort of agenda beyond being romantic/erotic trash novels.

It's absolutely not 50 Shades job, but when you have everyone who read it including the author treating it as if it's a great, fantastic book and what BDSM and romance both should be, then it's stepping beyond erotic trash novels and into something I am entirely uncomfortable with ignoring. Like, if everyone went 'Oh yeah, fifty shades, I loved it it was a nice trashy novel' no one would care, but unfortunately that's not what happened.

This.

Despite this alleged hypothetical claim that women who like the book treat it as a dating how-to guide, I have never seen that actually happen in real life.

I wonder why there isn't such scrutiny for people who like books/movies that contain any amount of violence.

Anyway, in the end, it's not your place to assume why someone enjoys something and I think it is ridiculously puritan to enforce your views on other people and shit on their parade.

Yeah, I have friends who like 50 Shades and they're the stereotypical audience for it, fans who stay in the mainstream as far as media goes and aren't aware of the feminist discourse about it. They know it's not supposed to be emulated in real life dating. "50 Shades of Fucked Up" is a fan nickname for it within the fan community. If someone says "I wish I had a guy like Christian Grey!" it's like saying "I wish I were a Jedi!" Like if they seriously had the chance to get either of those wishes at the expense of the life they had, they wouldn't take it. It's just a hyperbolic way of saying they like the fantasy of themselves living that life.

If someone says "I wish I had a guy like Christian Grey!" it's like saying "I wish I were a Jedi!" Like if they seriously had the chance to get either of those wishes at the expense of the life they had, they wouldn't take it.

Exactly! But it seems women always want to believe the worst of each other.

YES.

Thank you for this comment. It's not just puritanical. It's condescending as fuck. Oh gee, all those stupid women, how will they ever know what constitutes a healthy relationship if they can't figure out that cheap, silly BDSM novels aren't for real?

This reminds me of how bowling alleys in some states are required to put up signs warning that you can fall over when you're wearing bowling shoes. I've seen it argued that they shouldn't have to, because people should be smart enough to know that already. The question isn't whether people should be that smart, it's whether they are that smart, and I often get the impression the answer is no.

Well, I'd like to think that most adults understand the difference between fiction and reality. But some anons on this community can't seem to make the distinction, so you're probably right. Maybe all books and movies and TV shows should come with introductions reminding us they're not real! Do you think that would help? However are we going to protect these idiots who can't grasp the concept of make-believe? Maybe we should just constantly remind them that Bad Things Are Bad any time they show too much enthusiasm for something problematic. You know, so they don't get any funny ideas.

I've seen it. We've had a few ladies crash the local public meetups "looking for their Christian Grey". Thankfully, they've left within a few months because there are no "Christian Grey"s in our group. The guys are great, mostly down-to-earth people, and some have good jobs, but no one's a model-gorgeous multimillionaire.

Well, again, this brings us to the people I have met, face to face, not just online, telling me flat out 'It would be romantic if a strange man crept into my room and watched me while I sleep.'

Yes, it's totally puritan to want people to practice BDSM in a healthy way. I'll just be over here in my buckled shoes.

Ever notice how, even though lots of women dislike these things, even though to joke about them or roll their eyes or critique them, the real haters always seem to be teh mens?

I think that's bullshit. A lot of guys seem to take such massive amounts of joy in hating all over these things. I've yet to see these same guys critique or mock ANYTHING problematic that's aimed for a male audience. (Lots of gross porn out there, guys. Why don't you fuck off and talk about how wrong that is? Because you know what? It is worse. There are actual human beings in it. There, I said it. Books, no matter how gross, are at least not using real people. Look up the statistics on the average age of death for porn stars and tell me there's no difference.)

Basically I agree some things are icky and gross, but I'm really fed up with the people who get their jollies from mocking anything women like because it doesn't live up to their standards, while not applying anything like the same standards, not even a tenth of the same standards, to what's aimed at men.

And as someone who's had to listen to this sort of mockery from men just a bit too much, I'm far more likely to defend 50 Shades than anything else when people start up -- and I personally hate it. So great job, asshole dudes who want to remind us all how PR0Bl3m@t1c women's "porn" is.

Edited 2016-05-22 00:58 (UTC)

What world are you living in? All the critics I've seen have been women. Feminists.

All the people I hear slagging it off in real life are men. Specifically, my friends.

I read Twilight--well, the first three--because I work in a library and if something is that popular I feel like I should at least give it a go; I read The Da Vinci Code for the same reason. I felt at the time like Twilight was a brainless beach-read teen romance, no worse than the average Harlequin series. Then I met the fandom by sitting through the first Twilight movie panel at SDCC while waiting for something else. I figured I'd read comics like I normally do while killing time in Hall H, but I couldn't concentrate because of the screaming and also I have never felt more secondhand embarrassment in my life. I didn't even want to be in a room with those fans, and I can't imagine how the actors must've felt. If I'd been on that stage I would've broke and run.

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