fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3451 ]

[ SECRET POST #3451 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3451 ⌋

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[Sherlock Holmes]

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Honestly, I DO think that - on a population level - there are significant differences between men and women. That should not affect ow you treat individuals, but I do think there are general tendencies.

The problem (or, at least, one of the problems) with trying to take account of differences between men and women on a population level is that it's really hard to drill down and properly account for what's the result of socialization, structural forces, etc. It's very much overdetermined and so it's really hard to identify things that are for sure differences just on account of gender.

This is true - however, I also believe we are not separate from our socialization or our culture. I mean, you can change how future generations might be socialized, sure, but you're not going to undo it for already existing people.

I don't think that most people who want to draw population-level conclusions about gender (or race, or whatever) are nearly as careful as that about making the distinction you're making here. So that's one way it gets tricky.

And then the other thing is, how useful is it to draw that kind of conclusion, if it doesn't apply to the individual level and it only applies to specific cultural groupings and generations? What kind of operational conclusions are you going to draw out of htat?

I'm not saying it's useful per se...more like, when people make certain assumptions, they're not necessarily wrong or being assholes(and probably just operate on experience, like say:"8 out of 10 women I met did not like soccer, so chances are you won't either" or something like that).

But you said it shouldn't affect how you treat individuals

How is that not letting it affect how you treat individuals

Well, that would depend on what you do with your assumptions?

Obviously, if you'd want to stop women from going to soccer games, you'd be an asshole.

But honestly we choose the kinds of conversations we start or don't start of a lot of criteria - ad yeah, gender can be one of them.

I don't know that relying on experience like that is something that should be encouraged. People have a habit of not noticing or forgetting about things that don't conform to their assumptions so that sort of experience isn't very reliable.

I'm not saying it should be encouraged per se - just that it's, understandable?

I think we make assumptions about people all the time. And out brains tr to find patterns.

Does this look like a person I'm safe around? Is this a person who could possibly share my interests with? Does this look like a person that goes to my school? Does this person look like a potential romantic partner? etc.

And yeah, for some questions gender is going to play a role, based on experiences and preferences.

It is understandable. Like you said, it's how our brains work. But then some thoughts like that are more understandable to me than others. Your "most girls I know don't like soccer" example feels weird to me. It just wouldn't occur to me to look at that. I don't think it's necessarily the gender thing that's throwing me off though. I don't know what it is. I just know that got a head tilt from me.

It could just be that those kinds of assumptions are something I actively try to avoid, and not like as a self-righteous stand against an oppressive society. I've been on the wrong side of it before, with people not bothering to invite me to something because they just assumed I wouldn't be interested, or that sort of thing. It's annoying.

Hi OP!

Nah get out of here

Dude, if you seriously think I could be arsed to start an MRA thread, you are gravely mistaken.

Your point being? This pointless theme gets trotted out time and again as though it is some groundbreaking new thought which should somehow impact on the way we think and behave about gender when in practice it is individual differences which make all the actual decisions relevant.

Is there a general trend in male population towards certain sorts of thinking styles? Probably, overall. Does this make a shit of difference as to whether my extremely talented computer programmer female friend deserves as good career chances, pay and respect as her male peers and that social prejudice and power structures might mean she doesn't? No.

It's not a point so much, as that people tend to operate in patterns and experience. So certain expectations based on things like gender/age/culture etc.are not wrong per se (it's rigidity that's a problem).

(And no, that should not make a difference in how your friend gets paid or hired).

Drat you, everyone had turned this stupid post into a gloriously off-topic joke thread, and you had to go bring it back on topic again!

this is true specifically but it's not really very useful information, especially considering how often I see people try to justify their treatment of individuals on these broad generalizations

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3451 ]

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