fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #450 ]

[ SECRET POST #450 ]

⌈ Secret Post #450 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 395 secrets from Secret Submission Post #065.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 ] argument has been going on forever.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

But...Kristoph was evil just because. Dahlia at least had a backstory and substantial reasoning behind her actions, whereas Kristoph was just batshit insane.

I'm not trying to force you to like her or anything, but calling her a bitch while liking male characters who did even worse things is just seems so...ehhh.

QUICK QUESTION. Are you a feminist? D| I don't argue with feminists, I always end up pissed off and screaming "WHAT" a lot. DDD|

I just don't like Dahlia. Why can't anyone just be all "okay"? :| I mean, srsly.

Not the original comment author, but:

QUICK QUESTION. Are you a feminist? D| I don't argue with feminists, I always end up pissed off and screaming "WHAT" a lot. DDD|

This is profoundly fucked up. You don't argue with people who believe in working for equality for women, because they piss you off too much? And this is such a big problem to you that you have to ask someone if they're a feminist before you'll have a discussion with them?

So fucked up.

You do know that there are lots of different types of feminists, right? And most of them are generally pleasant people, not shrill man-hating harpies?

LOL HOLY SHIT. Someone has forgotten that this is the Internet.

"Oh, no, I said something ragingly stupid and immature and got scolded for it! How could this happen? I thought there were no consequences on the internet! ;__;"

HOW DID YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING.

No, see, I agree with anon here. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that some of the things you were saying rubbed me the wrong way, but that's too far. Refusing to argue with women who believe in promoting gender equality because you disagree with them that much is insane. And yes, that is what "feminist" means, even if some of the "feminists" you've met didn't seem to think so. And even if you don't see that as the definition of the word, there are many, many non-crazy feminists who do, and who call themselves by that name for that reason alone, and they, like the anon above, will find your screening test mind-bogglingly offensive.

Feminists take everything SO FUCKING PERSONALLY! She doesn't like a female character and thinks the girl's a bitch. So what? Here's a case of people assuming that she's being sexist. Has she ONCE SAID "I don't like Dahlia because Dahlia's a girl"? No, she doesn't like Dahlia because IN HER OPINION Dahlia is a bitch. Some random anon decided to assume she's being sexist. Maybe it's just me, but that seems like fair ground for irritation.

Arguing with feminisists never fails to make me want to smash my keyboard because HOLY SHIT THE VAGINA IS NEVAR WROOOOOOOONG!

Now I'm too irritated to even say anything that won't get smacked down by a quote from the vagina monologues. Just fucking get it in your head that it's not always about penises and vaginas.

(Also: I've been the victim of SERIOUS sexism, so don't even try preaching about how I don't understand just how hard women have it.)

No, "some random anon" felt that she was being sexist because she dismissed Dahlia as a "bitch", while fangirling Kristoph who is just as bad. Arguably the OP wasn't being sexist - we all have idiosyncratic reactions to characters - but Anon was reacting to a fandom trend which goes: "sociopathic arseholes are awesome if they're male, but evil bitches if they're female". It's not an unreasonable assumption for Anon to make, if a little judgmental. And then the OP went and made matters worse for herself by effectively declaring herself anti-feminist, which only lends credence to Anon's remarks.

(Also: I'm sorry you've suffered from sexism. But the amount of sexism in the world is why we need feminists.)

Anti-feminism, for me, has nothing to with feminism, but anti-batshit insane hypocrisy. Because I've noticed a trend that a good majority of feminists don't give a shit about equality and seem to be only about female superiority. So, should I start pointing fingers now at all the people in this thread that have given me that impression?

I'm not saying all feminists are insanely difficult to deal with and stubborn, but it seems like a lot of them are. (See: This whole thread.) They accused her on a TREND like she's an example. And really, who can blame her for not wanting to argue with feminists because anyone with half a brain knows the argument wouldn't get anyone ANYWHERE but ready to *headdesk*.

I'm sorry I've given you that impression while arguing with me. If you read comms like

metafandom, I think you'll find that when misandry crops up (and I'll admit it does - a couple of radical "feminists" of exactly the type you describe caused some trouble recently), it tends to get ripped apart by more mainstream feminists.

Honestly, I don't see the issue in this thread.

glitz_x said that she disliked a female character for being evil. Fair enough, that's her prerogative. A couple of people have pointed out - and

glitz_x has even conceded - that it's a little hypocritical to hate Dahlia and love Kristoph. One person has been rude about it, whereas several others have politely disagreed.

glitz_x was the first person to be rude on this thread (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/144483.html?thread=45482595#t45482595), I think.

They accused her on a TREND like she's an example.

The trend is that female characters tend to get short shrift in fandom, either being ignored (as the OP of Secret #26 pointed out) or actively hated, often for doing exactly the same things as the male characters are. I doubt

glitz_x is actively sexist, even if she does dislike feminists (see the definition linked to below - I suspect neither you nor

glitz_x are using the same one as we are). But her dislike of Dahlia and love of Kristoph does fit that trend, however idiosyncratic her personal reaction to the characters is. The anons and others on this thread are merely pointing that out.

I'm not saying all feminists are insanely difficult to deal with and stubborn

How generous of you. This (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/144483.html?thread=45520739#t45520739) is an effective summary of what I've been trying to say.

By "ehhh," I assume you meant "too stupid to live."

That was neednessly rude. :/ Wtfman.

needlessly*

sfkjdslkf

No, I don't consider myself a feminist, sorry if you got that impression. And like I said before, I just found it kind of odd how you claim to like certain characters while disliking Dahlia for the same reasons. I really didn't mean to get you upset or anything :( *hugs*

And no, by saying "ehhh" I didn't mean "too stupid too live" or anything similar to it. I was kind of rushed for time and I couldn't think of the right words so I just put that. No hard feelings.

No hard feelings, totally. :3 It's hard to explain why I don't like her, but I think it's just because I'm a teenage girl, and therefore, I utterly despise all other girls who are bitchier than I. |D

Do you believe in equality between males and females? If yes, then you are a feminist.

Then by your definition, I would be considered one. It's just that the definition of feminism has become so distorted over the years that different people have different ideas of the real meaning. Where I'm from, feminism is equated with bra-burning and man hating. I know that it's not what feminism really is, but considering the social stigma in my area I really can't go pronouncing myself a feminist without being called a lesbian or something equally stereotypical.

But why can't you call yourself a feminist on the internet?

Seriously, having "normal," non-man-hating, non-bra-burning people proclaim that they're feminists is a major step towards reclaiming the word from the crazy radicals and scared little men who tainted it in the first place.

Exactly. Feminism is a broad definition that encompasses all sorts of people and opinions, and of course, some people who identify as feminists will be sexist themselves - contradictory though it may seem. One feminist =/= ALL feminists. >:

One anything =/= ALL anythings. But for some reason that only seems to apply when you're talking about a majority (or in the case of men, the people in power, since women are hardly a minority). You don't see people arguing "This straight/male/white/mainstream person's behavior and opinions totally prove that all straight/male/cisgendered/white/mainstream people are jerks!" nearly as often or with as much success as you see people arguing "This queer/female/transgendered/(insert non-white race here)/feminist/unpopular-political-ideology person's behavior and opinions totally prove that all queer/female/transgendered/(insert non-white race here)/feminist/unpopular-political-ideology people are jerks!"

Re: 26

agawa-jean.livejournal.com - 2008-03-31 01:35 (UTC) - Expand

That isn't just their opinion of feminism, that is the definition of feminism. It's a pretty broad term, which is why I cringe inside when I hear people say things like "QUICK QUESTION. Are you a feminist? D| I don't argue with feminists, I always end up pissed off and screaming "WHAT" a lot. DDD|"

I'm not attributing that quote to you, by the way, just...I feel further ignoring the real meaning of feminism (AKA striving for gender equality!) simple perpetuates it. >: There are definitely plenty of different branches of feminism, and it's when people define it as something that its not that I get annoyed. Just because some feminists believe this doesn't = ALL feminists, duh. Again, not aimed at you, I'm just sick of seeing blatant generalizations about it.

And I'm really, really sorry if you can't even be a feminist or call yourself a feminist in your area without being called a lesbian/ragged on. That sucks.

I guess all of you are right. On the internet I shouldn't be afraid to say my beliefs for what they are. Luckily, I'll finally get away from my area within a few months (yay college!) so I can do/say whatever I please IRL as well. I should have made it clear that I believe in gender equality when I made my other post, but I was sort of on the defensive so it didn't come out like that. Once again, I'm sorry for all the trouble :(

No trouble! Your "actions" spoke louder than your words in this case. You've been civil and reasonable and intelligent through this whole thread, unlike a couple of people I could mention.

Good luck with your escape!

Re: 26

agawa-jean.livejournal.com - 2008-03-31 01:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 26

(Anonymous) - 2008-03-31 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

Thank you, living straw-feminist! Thank you for making civil, sane discussion of feminism THAT MUCH HARDER.

Sister Blister, she's not the enemy. Geeze.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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