[ SECRET POST #450 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #450 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 395 secrets from Secret Submission Post #065.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 ] argument has been going on forever.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sabbato.livejournal.com]

26. I agree and disagree. I mean I think it's already too late but Kristoph isn't nearly as vile and malicious and psychotic as Dahlia was. The way she used her sister, how she almost got away with everything.

One of the things is that Mia didn't prove anything (She did and didn't all at once). Dahlia walked out of court with a vague confession. Apollo managed to prove more right up until the end.

In the end I think Dahlia is a much more vile character then Kristoph, something about the ending didn't seem as "epic" than Dahlia's end.

But hell if that stops me from shipping the two of them because it'd be hilarious.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a bit of wank a couple of pages back about Dahlia's character, but Kristoph basically used Klavier the same way Dahlia used Iris, so I'm not quite sure how that's different. Kristoph almost got away with what he did for 7 years, which was a lot longer than Dahlia did.

I also agree that his ending wasn't nearly as epic, but I think it's more of a mixture of shoddy writing and a crappy motive than anything. Hopefully the villian of GS5 will be more "evil" and satisfying to take down.

[sabbato.livejournal.com]

I'm not disagreeing that Kristoph didn't use Klavier but from my understanding Kristoph only informed Klavier that Phoenix had false evidence.

There wasn't much else given to hint that he used Klavier outside of Kristoph's mental breakdown in court. The same can be said for Iris and how Dahlia spoke of her sister.

Kristoph only got away with killing a total of two people. Dahlia, if I recall correctly, got away with killing four people, five if you include Diego. I think the set up for Dahlia's malicious intent was much more well done and set up than Kristoph's.

Kristoph didn't get away with anything for "seven" years. Nothing happened until seven years later only getting away with a murder that should have happened seven years before - but that's amazing in itself.

Don't get me wrong! Kristoph is an amazing character and I really like him, but I think it was the execution of the plot that affected my point of view.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that Dahlia's malicious intent was definitely more set up than Kristoph's. Kristoph killed Shadi, Drew, and attempted to kill Vera. Dahlia killed Valerie, Doug, and tried to kill Phoenix and Diego. If I'm missing anyone let me know; it's pretty late and I haven't played that game in a while.

Kristoph "got away" with forging evidence, which was longer than Dahlia got away with stealing the jewel.

I generally do like Kristoph,but I think that when it comes to the evilness factor Dahlia and Kristoph are roughly the same. What makes Kristoph slightly more evil, IMO, is that he is not given the reasoning Dahlia has. A lot of that could be contributed to how the game itself was set up. Hopefully GS5 will feature some more of Kristoph, because he seriously has a lot of potential I hope Capcom doesn't waste.

[sabbato.livejournal.com]

Dahlia killed, if I remember correctly, Doug, "Diego", Valerie, herself, and Terry (on a technicality because he did drink the poison she told him to). I think there was someone else but it's been a while and I'm replaying through the third game again to make sure I didn't miss anyone.

I think my biggest curiosity about Kristoph is the psychlocks surrounding him during the Mason System. I'm more curious as to if it may be his motive but...I've never been good at breaking those things.

I just really love Dahlia as a character because she has reasons to be as psychotic as she was. I'm pretty into detailed history and knowing about a person so the fact that we know plenty of Dahlia's history and family life really makes me side more with Dahlia being the more evil party.

Her reasons for murder are quite fucked up, for a lack of a better term.

I hope Capcom doesn't waste the chance either. Apollo Justice lacked something as a game but it has so much potential to become greater. I'm actually looking forward to what will happen next.

[(Anonymous)]

I too am curious about Kristoph's psychlocks. I really hope that it has something to do with his motive/history, becuase the "motive" (if you can call it that) the game gave us was perhaps one of my biggest disapointments in the game :(

I love Dahlia's character, too. She's so messed up, and there's no denying some of the things she does are horrible, but she has a good motive and backstory. Also burning butterflies ftw.

I really hope that Capcom does better with GS5. AJ had so much potential, but I feel that the game really fell flat. Hopefully, they'll learn from their mistakes and make a great fifth game :)

[miss_prince.livejournal.com]

Burning butterflies = best sprite animation ever.

26 OP

[(Anonymous)]

Dahlia did do many vicious things, and I accept that she did more evil than Kristoph, given her higher death-count, but Kristoph did quite a bit as well.. He killed two men and attempted to poison a child, manipulated his brother, and ruined Phoenix's career. I think it's easier to remember how awful Dahlia was because the game spent so much time on her story -- three of the five cases revolved heavily around her. Kristoph gets two, and the development is spent more on the Gramarye family than Kristoph himself.

But there's also more reason to pity Dahlia. We're given the bare-bones story that Dahlia was unloved by either of her parents, and given various bits of information, it's fairly easy to conclude her father was an asshole. Every murder she committed was done to cover up her act of revenge against Hawthorne -- the kidnapping. In this she parallels Kristoph; every murder he commits is also a coverup. But Kristoph is given no real backstory. We are left to assume his only motivation is his own evil nature.

They're incredibly similar, but Dahlia gets the nod from me.

(Also, the lack of epicness in 4-4 is the result of bad writing. The Mason System segment really takes the wind out of the sails.)

Re: 26 OP

[(Anonymous)]

WORD. With Dahlia, we have actual backstory. With Kristoph, it's more like the writers had a good idea for a villian that connects to everyone (Phoenix's friend, Apollo's mentor, Klavier's brother, Trucy's father's killer, etc.) but failed to present him in such a way that gives some insight as to why he did what he did.

If there was a little something more to Kristoph's character, like he had more at stake with the Gramarye case, then he would be a more well-rounded character. But since we're given no such backstory or motive, all we have to go on is that he's psycho.

(Oh, God. Don't even get me started on the Mason System. I want to know whose idea it was to reveal EVERY SINGLE THING in it, so there would be no twists whatsoever in the final trial)

Re: 26 OP

[sabbato.livejournal.com]

I can agree with this. I like Kristoph as a character but he was missing something. I'll admit that I think it was the motive. I do like to come up with my own twisted reason as to why Kristoph is the way he is. Maybe it'll be revealed in GS5 (unless we go back to Phoenix). Who knows? I mean we all saw the Psychlocks he had...he's defiantly hiding something.

(I liked the Mason System, to be honest. I think introducing that was pretty interesting but I do like having to just go into court and present evidence myself.)