fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #457 ]

⌈ Secret Post #457 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 340 secrets from Secret Submission Post #066.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - what ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

The fans don't get up in arms like you think.

You're a shining example. Assuredly.

And you obviously either haven't been in fandom enough, or go in very small circle to have not seen fans getting in kerfluffes over that. You speak like you've been around since before leaving in suffixes was rather common, but your lack of being aware of fandom then seems the opposite.

And you're still confusing TECHNICALLY knowing English with being creative in English. There's a difference...it's the difference between blue prints and a Monet. All translators know the language, they're not all creative with it.

And you underestimate English. It has one of the largest vocabulary, you could find words. Out of 995,112 a creative person with a wide vocabulary could find a fitting way to catch the nuiances and not sound archaic.

Meh, I don't waste my time with pitchforking and crying over that they omitted honorifics. Will I less of a good opinion if they omitted and use the character's first names instead of that? Yes. Like you think you think not taking honorifics is "sloppy". And I've been pretty involved in the anime fandom on th net since 1997. I do see a person here or there bitch about honorifics once in a while, but I never heard a movement that made a company add honorifics when they omitted them. They just kept them because the audience didn't mind them or have a positive response, so they stayed.

I think you're OVERESTIMATING English to be honest, and besides not everyone uses most of the words of the language anyway. Like how Japanese have about 50000 kanji to choose from about regularly only use around 3,000 or more regularly. Like I said, if you're going to use some archaic word that you will have to explain ANYWAY. So the point comes moot in the end.

English is just like other languages in that:

1) It can't translate every word in every language. For example, Del Rey's decision to keep "hitsuzen" in xxxHolic in Japanese because translating into fate or destiny would be wrong because "hitsuzen" doesn't exactly mean that. You have some bizarre idea that translators didn't mull over the decision to keep Japanese honorifics or not. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

2) Doesn't make a word we absolutely won't need. There wasn't any need for any honorifics outside Mr./Miss/Mrs./Ms., so we don't need any more. Have they been some other honorifics beside those? Maybe, but they're so antiquated, no one uses it anymore. It would be extremely odd if someone used an extremely antiquated term in English. Hell, I remember some conversation (who don't speak a lick of Japanese) get perplexed of one translation of a certain manga translating all the "-san" as Mr., finding it extremely formal then it wasn't the case.

I don't think you don't take account of the culture of English speaking countries either. The reason we have so few honorifics because we don't adopt the same attitudes about addressing people like some Asian culture, which is a really big deal for them. It's common to call someone by their first name or nickname, if their name has a common nickname, on the first meeting. Unless they're a strict teacher, doctor, or some lawyer. Hell, we even address our bosses by their first name most of the time. A long time ago, it was common to call people in a higher social status by "Miss", "Mr.", etc. But clearly we don't use that anyone unless we want to be extremely formal.

You keep on believing that they haven't tried alternatives after nearly 20 years. They did, and they were pretty retarded to say in the least.

Actually, I don't think any archaic English word would seem as odd to me being yelled across, say, my campus, as someone besides some Japanophile or my Japanese teacher yelling out for me in Japanese. And you missed the part where I pointed out, several times, a good writer could do it without being archaic.

A) I have a shit tons of respect for translator, particular those of XXholic/Tsubasa as they go into very illuminating detail about WHY they did things the way they did, and owned up to the Fai/Fye thing.

B) I assumed anime fans aren't as silly as you seem to think they are and would figure out the cultural difference without a glossary if they were written well. I assume someone would know if they were calling someone say, Madame, even though we don't commonly use it anymore in this language. I also think that's a talent that is rare in ANY translation (Writing around words that don't translate right), not just Japanese, and think that for manga they are smarter not to try to write around it. I just think that it could be done well with out it by a talented person. I hold nothing against the translators that it is their job to get the message across as cleanly and neatly as possible. But that doesn't means that a talented person couldn't do it. I also think you're getting wrapped up in finding a WORD to replace the words, as oppose to a phrase, sentence, or whatever may work for what ever situation. (I.e. Replacing Seishirou's use of -kun on Subaru with something along the lines of "He said his name in a mocking tone." Which, as I pointed out above wouldn't work so well in Manga, as they only have dialog. However, as I also pointed out, I am not an amazingly creative writer)

Think it's smarter=/= it not being able to be done. Also it being done badly before=/=it not being able to be done. If you've been involved in the fandom for so long, you'll know a lot of those previous effort weren't exactly quality, or being done to reach any high standard. (See "Bunny" to replace "Usagi-chan" in Sailor Moon)

However, you're really making a lot of uneducated biased assumptions, and coming off as, well, a bit obsessive over it having to only be ONE WAY EVER. I'm really tired of yelling at a brick wall of a "OMG they translated it wrong!" fanbrat, even if you do happen to be a pretty well written one.

Except the fact that you're ignoring that there's no English equivalent for most honorifics (you know, actually research on this like I did back in college. Yes, I actually researched it to understand honorifics better and part curiosity). I think you're downplaying most of these translators' skill (who have to have very fluent in both languages in the first place and yes, they usually test them out before hiring them [that I know that because I was interested of becoming a professional translator at one point]. Hell, a good number of translators are Japanese natives and have a linguistics background). Not mentioning there is usually a team helping out. The fact that even most Japanese literature would just drop the honorifics altogether, and some use the "everyone refers first name" route tells you something about why there aren't replacements for them.

I'm not making uneducated biases as much your making assumptions that it can be done in a "creative" way without even giving examples, actually endorsing using archaic words that you have to end up explaining anyway (and they have to really archaic going past Old English because there was very, very few outside royal titles and yes I had to read a good amount of literature in Old English), ignoring the cultural differences in both English and Japan and how that's reflected in the structure of the language (more specifically in honorifics), and ignoring that there has been efforts but they failed because it was more awkward than simply leaving it be and give a detail explanation on it and also give a glimpse on Japanese culture since the language is pretty crucial to it anyway.

If they want to do a more accurate translation, it's best to leave them in and explain their significance. They can leave them out if they so please, but dear god, don't replace them with awkward words either.

Nice calling me a fanbrat though seeing that you can debate without namecalling (or knowing what a fanbrat really is, I hope you don't call anyone who disagree with you that). Really a pity. I tired of trying to convince someone who refuse to listen why either.

[ SECRET POST #457 ]

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