[ SECRET POST #3512 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #502.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sarillia]

I don't know. Personally I'm oblivious, but I've talked to a lot of gay women who say they related to the way they saw her checking out other women in a way that I never heard gay men talking about Dumbledore.

[(Anonymous)]

So she is gay the same way Dean is gay. Fangirls analyzed the degree and time in which her eyes looked at other people and confirmed it.

[sparrow_lately]

Except the creator and presumably actor wanted her to be read as gay, unlike Dean.

Also: she acts like a gay woman. I can't explain it. But all the gay women I know who I can think of who've seen it get that vibe. Maybe it requires Full Gaydar.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh fuck this. Fuck this. Fuck This. FUCK THIS!

"Acting like a gay..." is one of the most harmful things to perpetuate outside of hate and actual violence. It's harmful for gay people. It's harmful for straight people. It's harmful to everybody. FUCK THAT NOISE.

[(Anonymous)]

lol ok random straight person thnx for weighing in

[sparrow_lately]

Me: kisses my wife
Somebody: damn that's gay
U: THE HORROR!!!!

But in all seriousness I think you can probably think critically and see the difference between coding/recognizing behavior (there's a reason lots of non straight people become friends even if they don't know if they're not straight) and harmful prescriptive shit. Cmon now my friend

[(Anonymous)]

Hmmm, I don't remember Holtzman kissing anybody in Ghostbusters, so you're drawing shit-ass comparisons and my point still stands.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

*snerk* We do have gay communities and a gay culture, which includes a whole mess of body language and verbal code that we use in safe spaces with each other.

[(Anonymous)]

"she acts like a gay woman"

I thought we were trying to abandon the mindset that gay and straight people act differently. Especially noticeably different.

[(Anonymous)]

nah. characters being coded and presenting in certain ways is not the same as saying that there's an essentialist difference going in. in kind of the same way that race-blindness is not necessarily the most productive response to racism.

[(Anonymous)]

no, we really aren't. we're trying to abandon the mindset that the way gay people act is unnatural and sinful

[sarillia]

I feel like there's a difference between a group of people who weren't allowed to be shown explicitly in a movie seeing themselves in certain behaviors and fangirls looking for the tiniest bit of evidence to support their ship. But I don't care enough to keep going and have people sarcastically shouting "muh representation" at me.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank

[(Anonymous)]

well, that kind of analysis, plus explicit confirmation from the creator, you jacknozzle

[(Anonymous)]

Dean is not gay, he's bi.

[(Anonymous)]

no, buddy, you're mixing things up.

Holtzmann: gay women look at her, say "that's how gay women look at other women," smile fondly

Dean: straight women look at him, say "i want to see his cock in another dude's butt," write 10000 fanfiction to justify their fantasy

[(Anonymous)]

Yuppp

[(Anonymous)]

Because no closeted bisexual woman could ever look at Dean and recognize similar strategies used to stay in the closet?

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe if you squint?

Whereas with Holtzmann, it's all pretty much right there for all to see. Give me one bit of evidence that she's straight that isn't "most people are"

[(Anonymous)]

Dumbledore was like 90 though, I don't think that's an accurate comparison with someone in their prime. I'd think anyone that's 20-30 would be doing more checking out than someone as old as Dumbledore.

Someone else brought it up above somewhere, but a more compelling argument would be "the intent was there but the studio didnt allow it" for Ghostbusters vs. "the author chose not to put it in" for Harry Potter

[sarillia]

I'm not really trying to get anyone to agree with me, just trying to show why I don't accept that Dumbledore was shown as gay in canon but I find Holtz's case a bit more ambiguous.

[(Anonymous)]

Dumbledore is presented as a way more complex (and problematic) (not in the SJW sense) gay archetype but he's not un-gay.

[tree_and_leaf]

I'd argue that the way that Rita talks about Dumbledore is full of homophobic dogwhistles - which, no, is not the same way as spelling out that he's gay, but it did seem to fit. (Harry doesn't seem to notice them, but either he's worried about more pressing things, or he's just being oblivious to subtext, which is not exactly out of character. Harry's a lot of things, but he's not subtle).

[kallanda_lee]

I can't say, because I have not seen it. But, the anon saying it's not canon is sort of right, I think. If you do not show something explicitly on screen, it will always be debatable, basically.

And I think with Dumbledore the age thing matters. Like, you're going to have 12-16 year old boys reading it, but not identifying so much with a guy who's their granddad's age on a relationship level.

[diet_poison]

Dumbledore never really flirted with anyone, did he? He wrote letters with Grindelwald which made people think they had feelings for each other, and they turned out to be right, but it wasn't something you could really pick up in spoken dialogue or on screen. I just wonder if it would be harder to detect.