[ SECRET POST #3538 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3538 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 56 secrets from Secret Submission Post #506.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Related to secret 9.

How does being trans* without dysphoria make sense?

Performative gender stereotypes may assist people who suffer from dysphoria be more comfortable with themselves, that doesn't mean because you break stereotypes you're suddenly not a woman. It seems like we're regressing and being a tomboy must mean now that you're literally no longer a woman.

Any good links would be appreciated because all the articles I've seen supporting it have just been word salad.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

I'm confused how your question relates to the rest of your secret. How are you defining "trans*"?

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I wonder this, too.

While it's one thing to have any identity you want, I'm not sure what in the world you expect society to do about it unless you literally want to change your body/live 100% of the time as the opposite sex. Your experience is your own, but you're not trans in the way that people with dysphoria are trans, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect society to use made-up pronouns to accommodate you just because you think you're not stereotypically feminine enough.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't make sense. It's special snowflake bullshit promoted by people who think LGBT is a speshul cool ppl club you can join.

This is why queer theory is terrible and harmful.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

I guess it's a state of mind.
You know you're one gender, and you're not bothered by your biological sex.
Like say you're a dude and your dick gets cut off. You don't suddenly start thinking you're a woman, because you know you're a dude.
Same principle with a trans person. You don't feel like a lesser man/woman even if you lack the "correct" plumbing.

Being a tomboy or a transvestite is different, because while you don't subscribe to societal gender expectations, you still know your gender.

'Performative gender stereotypes' can aid people, but they don't make or break them.

Idk, try trans forums. I'm sure someone could explain it better.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god, this is such bullshit. It's amazing how deeply delusional you have to be to believe this.

"because while you don't subscribe to societal gender expectations, you still know your gender"

The fuck does that even mean? Gender IS societal gender expectations. There's no such thing as gender outside of that. You can't preach the "gender is a social construct" stuff then turn around and say "wait, actually its only a social construct for some people for the rest of us it's biological lol." It does not. make. any. fucking. sense.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I was trying to answer OP's question:

How does being trans* without dysphoria make sense?

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, no.

Most trans people are VERY bothered by their wrong body. Critically bothered in fact, to the point of self harm, eating disorders, and sometimes depression leading to suicide. That is literally what dysphoria is. It's not "oh yeah I know I'm a man/woman ~on the inside~ so I'm ok with the fact that I don't even remotely resemble one".

No. No. A thousand times no. It's a physically painful, mentally devastating thing to have to contend with.

+10000000000000

[(Anonymous)]

Yes this this all of this a trillion times THIS.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

goodness, I know that trans and dysphoria tend to go hand in hand
I was answering OP's question:

How does being trans* without dysphoria make sense?

Re: Going Anon For This

[kallanda_lee]

What I do think, curiously, is that there are different levels of dysphoria.

For example, I'm pretty sure DO have it, but it's not well, overwhelming enough to make me want to pursue i, if that make sense. It's more like...I'm bothered by having breasts and having the ability to get pregnant up to the point where it's like a clothing label that keep bugging you (I.e. it's always there).

Like, I'd love a body without breast and menstruation - but I''m not bothered about clothes or pronouns.

I identify as female, cause for all intents and purposes I am one - but I wonder if there's more folks like me, and some of them fall into that nonbinary' identification or whatever.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

I want to add though, that it manifests differently. Like some guys will be really horrified by their downstairs plumbing and not really give a shit about their chest, and some are the opposite.

It's like OCD is intrusive thoughts and intense urges to perform rituals, but the actual thoughts and rituals aren't the same from person to person.

Re: Going Anon For This

[grausam]

this.

plus, there are nonbinary genders, and agender people. I don't think most nonbinary people would want to have a perfectly "balanced" set of genitalia. once you accept that biological sex can have very little to do with one's gender, it's not that hard to imagine.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

You have perfectly worded my issue with all the niche genders outside of cis, trans and and identities stemming from being intersex.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

I'd say cis doesn't even make sense as a gender identity, but that's not an argument I feel like getting into right now.

Re: Going Anon For This

[feotakahari]

In order to answer that, you would need to answer how being trans with dysphoria makes sense. More than a decade passed between when I first learned that "trans" was a thing and when I realized how deep my body image issues ran, and during that time, I was so far in denial that I had no understanding of what dysphoria was or how anyone could possibly have it. I still don't have a way to explain it to anyone else. That's why I don't pick fights about who is or isn't trans--I used to be a little shit towards trans people with dysphoria, so I don't want to be a shit towards anyone else I don't understand.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

I'd assume gender euphoria would be one way it would work.
Where, rather than dysphoria making assigned-gender feel Wrong, it's that not-assigned-gender feels Right.

Fwiw, I believe that gender stereotypes have no real bearing on gender identity (as in, gender-coded interests don't automatically mean you are the gender associated with them).

Basically, my opinion on being trans is that it means someone genuinely feels like they're not the gender they were assigned at birth, rather than "oh I like [stereotypically other-binary-gender thing] I must be [other-binary-gender/nonbinary]" or any other sort of superficial gender essentialist stereotyping.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

"gender euphoria"

Sounds like autogynephilia.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

No opinion on your first paragraph, but so much agreement on the second two.

What is considered proper gendered behavior varies so much across cultures and through time, even without a contemporary western concept of "transgender" and of gender identity issues in generak, there is still no single, universal way to be a woman or a man. Yet, the concept of people mostly being women or men (with some wiggle room and alternative options, depending on the culture) is pretty universal, and not purely from the angle of biological sex. I think there's such a thing as innate gender identity that is seperate from both biological sex and socially-assigned gender rolls and cultural expectations.

Of course, this means liking [stereotypically other-binary-gender thing] doesn't automatically make you into a magical gender-identity unicorn, and that makes some people mad.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

"Basically, my opinion on being trans is that it means someone genuinely feels like they're not the gender they were assigned at birth"

This is how all of my trans friends have described it to me - that it feels like they're in the wrong body. Like, my trans guy friend hates his breasts because they're a constant physical reminder of the fact that he has a female body rather than the male one he should have. He's very femme in terms of gender presentation, but he's not female and so having a female body is genuinely distressing to him.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Answer: It doesn't. But try telling that to all of the transtrenders on Tumblr.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, ok, so I ate lunch with The Straights at work, the other day, and this literally was their conversation. There was lead-up conversation, but then they got stuck on how they Could Not get over the idea that if a lesbian "dresses like man" how does that make her a woman and not a man, because if you "dress like a man" you must want to be a man, right? And how do you know you're still a woman if you want to be with women and dress like a man?

I tried to interject with little things like, "Sexual orientation and gender identity are two totally different things," only for them to respond, "Yea, I get that, but how can a woman want to love and be with a woman but dress like a man and still call herself a woman? And ok, maybe sometimes it's genetics or chemicals, or something, but when is it a choice to become the opposite sex?"

Si~gh

I seriously worry for these people. I can't understand how they be so closed-minded that everything is so black and white. The world must be a big, scary place for them.

Re: Going Anon For This

[(Anonymous)]

From what I understand, being trans can manifest in a purely psychological way? Like your physical body doesn't feel wrong, but you still feel so much that you're the wrong assigned gender that being treated as such gives you panic attacks/suicidal thoughts/other mental health issues, and a disconnect from the popular understanding of why the body you're in is so intrinsically seen as belonging only to the gender you've been assigned.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

Also, the idea that you must experience body dysphoria to be trans is one of the main indicators of being a TERF. So maybe try and stop.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

"Having a grasp of logic makes you a TERF."

What the fuck.