fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3547 ]

[ SECRET POST #3547 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3547 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #507.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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No. I can enjoy art for art's sake and go blissfully on with my life without knowing every "problematic" thing the artist said or did.

You can. I don't think you should do, though.

I mean, there are degrees here. I don't think that, because the writer of one episode of Babylon 5 jaywalked one time, you can never watch Babylon 5, or whatever. And as I said above, reaction doesn't have to be black and white. Being aware of something doesn't mean dropping it immediately.

But where you have something where, like with Ezra Pound, his views are both deeply disagreeable, and really closely tied to what he's doing artistically - or where you have something where someone has done something really heinous - I don't really see how you can avoid having that impact what you think of their work. I don't understand how you could not react to knowing things like that.

True, you don't think.

You just rage that people are having fun wrong.

Well, then, I guess I have to toss all my Eric Flint books, since he's a literal card-carrying Communist, because Communism is a deeply disagreeable philosophy responsible for millions of deaths, spreading misery and fear wherever it's practiced.

Oh, wait, no I don't, because I don't actually give a shit what a stranger on the internet thinks I "should" do about my entertainment and the people who provide it.

I didn't say that you have to throw out all your Eric Flint books. Or, for that matter, all your Ezra Pound books. I think that you should be aware of those beliefs, and how - if at all - they interact with what his books are doing.

And I'm saying, No, I really really don't. I can think that both Eric Flint and Larry Correia spin mighty fine yarns, and not give a shit about either of their politics. I am not paying them to be President, I am paying them to entertain me. If their politics come through their work in a disagreeable way, then it will cease to be entertaining, and then I will stop giving them my custom.

Until then? It. Does. Not. Matter.

I think the problem here is that the person who is replying to you thinks that art is simply entertainment, and if it raises issues they disagree with they then won't engage with the art at all. Whereas you (I think) are viewing art as not just about entertainment, which means you look at the context as well.

Where has communism been practised? The few places that have called themselves communist have all been various flavors of authoritarianism. Communism is actually a very beneficial philosophy, and would improve lives if implemented without the authoritarianism or cults of personality (neither of which are unique to communism and exist even within capitalist driven societies).

What do you think communism is?

Just out of curiosity

Communism is a philosophy that DOESN'T FUCKING WORK, AND NEVER WILL WORK, IN THE WAY THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU WIFFLE ON ABOUT HOW IT SURELY WILL IF WE CAN JUST GET THE RIGHT PEOPLE INVOLVED. It will always, always turn out exactly how it always turns out. The scientific method ain't only for purely scientific endeavours. It can also be applied to things like governments. If literally all of the many times communism has been tried have turned almost immediately into horrible repressive anti-individual control freak dictatorships, in all of the wildly diverse cultures and nations where it has been tried, perhaps it is time to recognize that the flaw is in the philosophy itself, rather than "oh we just haven't got the right peeeeeopllllle in charge" or what fucking ever. "Communism is actually a very beneficial philosophy" yeah go and fucking tell that to the former Soviet satellite states and see what they think of that.

Mainly what has caused attempts to derail is intervention from capitalist nations to inspire resistance for resistance sake with no intent of actually trying it in case it actually does work. There is a lot of big money to be made for a very few number of people by ensuring communism doesn't work.

The only cases I'm familiar with where true communal living basically worked and didn't devolve into shitshows are the kibbutzim, and I think a key factor of them working was the fact that you can opt out if you want to leave. Most of them have privatized by now (another testament to the fact that people fundamentally don't really work in the system), but some still survive, and even get new members.
It's got to be small-scale, though, and having other options is pretty necessary too.

Exactly, It won't work because we aint the Borg, we are not Smurfs, we are humans and most of humanity are greedy self centered little shits.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-20 01:52 (UTC) - Expand

YES YES FUCKING THIS!

It's a religion and a strict, unforgiving one at that.

If anyone wants to give an example of it WORKING beside little communes, I'm monitoring this thread.

Capitalism expects selfishness, so it goes a lot further in function. It's not pretty (MOAR REGULATIONS PLEASE) but it works. Imagine the iPhone coming from Soviet Russia, it's the antitheses incarnate!

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-20 18:56 (UTC) - Expand

+10000

Thank you for saying this

Why don't you and the libertarians go off and have a nice long talk together. Here, I'll give you a topic: "Just because my philosophy has a 100% failure rate in the real world doesn't mean it's wrong!"

Communism in an utopia. It sounds nice, but it's based on impossibles and that's why all attempts of it not only end in authoritarianism, but also make things worse for everyone not in power.

It would only work in a voluntary, small scale scenario, like a...well, a commune. But here's the problem with communes: there are always some jackholes involved, who either don't pull their weight or want to throw theirs around. Can you think of 20 people you can trust to start a commune with you right now? How do you think you all will be coping in 20 years?

Most people living in national communist regimes didn't have a say and would have preferred to leave, but they couldn't. Why do you think leadership of communist states has had to be authoritarian?

I don't think people are necessarily all horribly greedy, but they like the freedom to do what they like with their lives, and compelling their adherence doesn't work.

You seem to have communism and capitalism mixed up.

" I don't really see how you can avoid having that impact what you think of their work."

The secret is I don't bother to look them up to make sure they are social justice approved.

What about if you become aware of it through happenstance?

Well, if they are not social justice approved, that's a feature, not a bug, as far as I'm concerned.

Okay, sure, spite is awesome, woohoo, yay, fuck social justice groups.

Setting all that aside, though: is there really no circumstance where you could learn something about the writer that might impact on how you experience their work? Or might make you dislike it?

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2016-09-20 01:14 (UTC) - Expand

>I don't really see how you can avoid having that impact what you think of their work.

*Exactly.* Which is why I don't think you should.

Read a work on its' own merits, and to hell with what the author thinks.

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