fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3556 ]

[ SECRET POST #3556 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3556 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Lord of the Rings trilogy]

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02.

[pride and prejudice; unnamed others]

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03.

[Endeavour]

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04.

[Tim Curry / Movies: IT, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Clue, Legend]

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05.

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06.

[Loud House]

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07.

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08.

[MST3K]

Notes:

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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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So I wasn't quite sure what to expect going into this book.

My first impression upon reading the synopsis was "wow so ~~~edgy". (I wasn't really wrong about that wrt the way Katsa's abilities were portrayed, imo.) I also immediately wondered how it would compare to books like The Hunger Games and Divergent. (For full disclosure, I liked both books, though THG more, and felt Divergent had more problems and the sequels had major issues. I'm a sucker for weird YA worldbuilding though.)

I also thought "the book will be bad and I'll like it anyway". I don't know if I'd call it bad, but it wasn't a masterpiece. I had a few issues with it, such as some problems with the prose (namely all the sentence fragments...wtf) and a few issues with the two main characters being basically superpowered compared to the rest of the cast, which I thought was highlighted rather than tempered by Katsa's Kryptonite in the form of King Leck. I do think the effect was tempered somewhat by the book treating their superpoweredness as something they genuinely struggled with at times, though.

That aside...I still liked the book and had fun reading it. I loved a few things in particular - the imagery, the dialogue (particularly how the main characters had very distinct speaking voices), and the details that were enough to be engaging without being distracting. I also liked the plot twist at the end with Po, which is to say it was kind of a gut punch, and made me sad lol.

My favorite character hands-down is Bitterblue, which makes me want to read the sequel solely because I know it is about her, though I'm not sure I will enjoy her character so much when she is 18. I also am not sure how I feel about reading about Bitterblue in a romance, especially one as tropey-sounding as the synopsis of her book makes me think it will be, but eh. I did like the romance between Katsa and Po, though. I mean, it was 110% predictable, but it still hit my buttons, heh.

Some thoughts on the characters...

Katsa: very stereotypical in some ways. I thought her "I will never get married/have kids!" was very similar to your stock YA heroine, though it was important to her character. I sort of hoped at the beginning that she'd change her mind about the former and marry Po, though I wanted her to stay without wanting kids. At the end though I feel it would send a bad message and mess up her character to have her change her mind at this point. I felt like she must have been way more fucked up psychologically than the way she was written given her past, so that was a bit weird. I liked her determination to see Bitterblue to safety, her forming of the Council to try to counteract Randa under his nose, and her choice to cut her hair and keep it that way.

Po: honestly, one of the few book characters I could see myself being fairly attracted to, if you make him out to be a bit less muscly than he probably is. I think he was supposed to have dark hair, but I kept imagining him with a complexion almost identical to Marik Ishtar from YGO, just with a less douchey face, gold-and-silver eyes, and shorter (a couple inches long) hair. Maybe it's the jewelry lol. Lienid culture was interesting to me and I liked how different it was from the rest of them, which makes sense since iirc that kingdom was on an island. He had the most interesting speaking voice, and was perhaps the most dynamic character. Him going blind kind of broke my heart.

Bitterblue: MY FAVE. She really was written as a child - a royal child, who knew how to take charge, but a child nonetheless, who was scared of men but began to trust them when Po earned her trust; who was scared of the weapons she held until taught to use them; who was scared of dying but pressed on because she had no other choice. Her scene right after Leck died was amazing, especially her line "I'm not a princess; I'm the queen of Monsea". She knew what was up lol.

Randa: I kinda thought he was going to be the "evil king" in the synopsis, but he turned out to be a mostly irrelevant douchebag. His main purpose was clearly for Katsa's character development. I hope he gets taken down in a sequel though; he's an asshole.

Raffin: can I take a minute to mention how much I love cousin relationships? Especially m/f ones? gaaah. Raffin and Katsa are great. Without Raffin I doubt Katsa would have stayed sane, and his intention to do what he wanted even if it pissed off his dad was charming.

Giddon: I really thought he might turn out to be an antagonist after how poorly he took Katsa's rejection. What a self-absorbed, idiotic shitweasel. I couldn't stand the way he talked to Katsa like he knew her better than she did, he needed her protection despite being literally the most dangerous person in the world, and how he treated her badly (always criticizing etc.) when supposedly in love with her. I still wonder if he'll turn up as a villain in a later book. He's a medieval Nice Guy and exactly the sort of personality type to take rejection as a personal slight. Well-written though, for that.

Leck: very good villain for being a psychological horror more than a physical one. The very idea of someone like him actually existing is creepy as all get out. Bitterblue's description of his psychological torture of her and Ashen with injured animals and servants was horrifying. :(

Those are a few of my thoughts - what are yours, F!S?

Next commenter here: Her scene right after Leck died was amazing, especially her line "I'm not a princess; I'm the queen of Monsea". She knew what was up lol.

Yes, she's a queen all right! It's the sort of thing the young Elizabeth I would have said, except that she wasn't a queen at that age.

Yay I am here for this!

This was the second time I've read the book.
It was a mostly enjoyable read, very easy, but as much as I liked it, not much of it stayed with me after I read it either time. I had to make notes for this because I knew it wasn't going to stick.

I wasn’t deeply invested in the characters.
Katsa. Best everything ever! Super good looking! Men get jealous over her! She's unkillable or something that we don't know all the limits of because it seems to just get more amazing for the convenience of the plot!
I do appreciate characters that don't want children or marriage in settings where it's an expectation that they should, but at times I felt like it was a bit overstated. We get it. You don't want it. I did like that she didn't change her mind because of Po though.

Po was a bit similar in that they're both super amazing and special and sexy. They were both moody, dramatic idiots at different points. I know I'm saying a lot of negative things. I didn't hate them, but I did wonder at times how many pages one of them was going to sulk for.

Some of the names of places and people were a bit ridiculous sounding. Tbh I can't remember most of them now. It was in my notes though so it's going in.

The romance wasn’t all that romantic. It wasn't the focus for me. I liked the friendship between Katsa and Bitterblue and their escape more.

The pacing of the book was slightly off. I feel like the writing got more confident and her style was more consistent as the novel progressed. Google says this was her first book, so that makes sense. Maybe it would have benefited from some harder editing.
Overall I enjoyed it. I think the premise was interesting. It’s certainly not the best thing I’ve ever read but it’s far from the worst.

Leck is a scary bad guy. I will say that.

I would have liked to know more about Raffin and Oll, and maybe had a bit more follow up on a few plot points. Raffin and Bann were gay for each other, right? Also what were the other kingdoms thinking about this whole council business and the Leck thing?

I should get around to reading Bitterblue at some point. I read Fire once but I found it pretty forgettable.

Thanks for running the book club discussion! I had fun reading it and I want to hear what other people think.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Raffin and Bann were together, lol. When Katsa demands to know if Raffin is also secretly in love with her, and the two of them crack up, I thought for sure that was why. Then later on, she says something to Po about how Raffin should find a nice wife who wants lots of kids, and I thought for sure that there was going to be an "Actually, haven't you noticed..." moment from Po, but there wasn't? So maybe it wasn't actually intended. But I'm still totally reading them that way.

I think Po is probably more likely to notice that kind of thing than Katsa is, but I'm not sure if he'd share it though because he's probably used to respecting other people's privacy.

His gift as well only works when people's thoughts are about him, so I don't think he'd have known for sure how they think or feel about each other even if he did suspect it. He might know one or both of them swing that way if they checked him out, but that's it. ;)

"Po was a bit similar in that they're both super amazing and special and sexy. They were both moody, dramatic idiots at different points. I know I'm saying a lot of negative things. I didn't hate them, but I did wonder at times how many pages one of them was going to sulk for."

At the end there was a bit I really liked where Katsa called him out on the self pity a couple of times. So glad that new brand of self pity was quickly nipped in the bud!

I was getting pretty annoyed with him towards the end tbh. I think if I were his gf and trying to be around him with him being all moody and making me feel like I did something wrong all the time I wouldn't handle that well at all.

Especially since, well, he can read minds more or less but you can't so it feels a little onesided. Especially since he sounds like his powers have quadrippled or something. HE CAN MENTALLY SEE ROCKS. How am I meant to expect his people reading of "only when it's directed at him' is still at that base level?

Yes! Me too. I know you don't just get over something like that, but he doesn't have the excuse of being ignorant of how he was making other people feel. He needed a bit of a kick.

Thanks for commenting! I agree with you on many things, including how sulky the MCs were, especially Po. And I loved Katsa's relationship with Butterblue!

Some of the names of places and people were a bit ridiculous sounding.

I definitely thought a lot of the kingdom names were dumb, uncreative, and generic.

Raffin and Bann were gay for each other, right?

Wait, really? I didn't pick up on that at all but it would be really cool if true! I wonder how mad that would make Randa...

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply!

I don't know for sure that they were gay, I think it was just vibes. Raffin and Bann spent a lot of time together, they both laughed when Katsa asked if Raffin was in love with her, neither of them had other love interests and I think at one point Katsa talked about how they'd thought about marrying each other for convenience? We know Katsa didn't want to marry, but why would Raffin want to marry someone he doesn't think of in that way? Raffin's relationship with Randa also seemed really strained, and Randa didn't approve of a lot of things he did. I'm wondering if he got vibes too? Giddon never seemed jealous of Raffin either even though Katsa was close with him and probably more affectionate towards him than any other man before she knew she loved Po.

I'm going to read Bitterblue at some stage, so if you are as well, let me know so we can discuss it!

...I assumed Giddon was never jealous of Raffin because he and Katsa were cousins, but given that is apparently not a social barrier to marriage in this society (since they discussed a possible marriage of convenience), you may well be right.

As I said I'm in favor of this development! Now I wish I'd picked up on it myself.

I was pleasantly surprised at just HOW much I really enjoyed this book, I couldn't wait to finish it. I thought it was better than a lot of similar YA books ( I didn't care for Truthwitch, which had a similar set up in the beginning)

I loved the characters. They were all fairly well-rounded and I love the relationships here between Katsa and Raffin. I love how much Katsa and Po were desperately trying to take care of Bitterblue.

I don't know how I'd feel about the sequels because I really want more of Katsa and Po because they were great together. I loved the pacing of this book and I'm really glad we voted this one in. I agree with you on the prose a bit but it didn't keep me from reading it. I guess one way of describing this book would be that it's a good beach read. I was entertained by it, but it's not a masterpiece. Overall a good book club choice.

Agreed with your general assessments lol, thought I have not read Truthwitch.

I'm actually kind of happy that Po and Katsa's relationship got left where it did though especially given that it wasn't necessarily going to last. I hope the sequel has lots of Katsa traveling around and visiting Bitterblue in Monday while on her travels to do awesome things :)

As far as YA books, I'm also glad that the love triangle was pushed away completely, yes Giddon wanted Katsa but she didn't see him that way at all and was super firm with her decision, which is not typical. Most of hte time there are two boys, the girl can't decide between them and then the story suffers. Here, not at all!

Yeah, love triangles are dumb. I mean...I've just never cared for them.

I honestly wish Katsa had been more direct in her rejection of Giddon - I hated how the advice given to her was "make it not about him" i.e. stroke his ego so he doesn't feel bad. It wasn't even necessary from a personal protection standpoint, not with Katsa. Of course, the Council could have suffered...there is that.

It's just a nasty reflection of RL attitudes. Girls are expected to let guys down easy and make sure they know we don't think there's anything wrong with them, even when our reason for rejecting them is "actually, you're a big asshole".

I'm just glad he was written out a bit and that he wasn't a part of the end, that the end of the book was focused on Bitterblue, Po and Katsa and their survival and how to take down King Leck.

I thought the book started a bit confusing/slow, like I wasn't sure what direction it was going in but I liked where it went.

And yes, it's definitely a reflection of "well shouldn't you be lucky that you have two guys fighting for you? How ever can you choose?" Well when one is an asshole, it's easy! Plus she doesn't even want Po in the beginning, he wears her down though by being her equal.

"well shouldn't you be lucky that you have two guys fighting for you? How ever can you choose?"

Yeah I'm not fond of those situations! >___> And they didn't fight over her, really; Giddon was jealous all the time but Po took the high road of treating Giddon with courtesy and not making Katsa a reason to fight.

I'm reminded of the bit at the beginning where he messed up her face, and then apologized to Giddon about it. I do think that was shitty of Po - well, of both of them really. Giddon being in love with her doesn't entitle him to being able to look at her pretty face all the time. Ugh, he's so possessive and gross. It was disrespectful of Po to play along with that imo.

I really don't think Po "wore her down". Po never made a move towards her until he saw with his Grace that she would return his feelings. Also she was sexually attracted to him pretty early on but didn't recognize it. They just had a strong friendship that turned into a romance over time.

I liked that Katsa stuck to herself in the book and wasn't coerced in to being with Po, she was with him because he was her equal and didn't treat her differently because of her Grace. I did think the Graces were a little unusual and not super explained well but there was a lot happening in this story.

At first, I liked Giddon but as the story went on, I couldn't stand him.

Yeah, it's good that their Graces put them on pretty much equal footing.

Giddon was meh for me until he started to be fleshed out, which wasn't much because his whole character existed to shape Katsa's character, but I just liked him less and less as he went on. He gave me such a Nice Guy vibe. I mean, I'm not mad that he exists; he was well-written for what he was. Just very easy to dislike as a person xD

Yeah, he definitely gave me that Nice Guy vibe which is why I'm glad Katsa wrote him off pretty quickly that she didn't want to be with him.

Again, this book as fairly enjoyable as someone who likes YA and reads TONS of it (probably 50 books so far this year)

With Leck he was such a great psychological thriller that I, idk, was expecting more when he caught them? I was thinking of Bitterblue saying he was patient and expecting Katsa to spend a few days fighting against him mentally, Bitterblue trying to get her to come to her senses, maybe the cut up animals explained.

But then Leck was dead and that was it :x

I was expecting there to be a long imprisonment and psychological torture but I'm really glad that didn't happen because that would actually have been very hard for me to read. I was pretty uncomfortable reading even that which did happen.

Though having Bitterblue talk Katsa out of it would have been very cool.

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