fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3635 ]

[ SECRET POST #3635 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3635 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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06. [SPOILERS for Westworld]

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07. [SPOILERS for Westworld]

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08. [SPOILERS for Pokemon Sun and Moon]

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09. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #519.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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09. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]
http://i.imgur.com/glOmccF.png

Who mind whammied her? Because if it was an angel or demon, of course they don't care about 'consent'. That is sort of a demon's thing and angel's have proven that they can get around consent when they want to.

Yeah I don't think you can put demon/angel not caring about consent on par with human consent issues...

I don't think OP is talking about the angels and demons failing at consent, they're talking about the show failing. Like writing an episode in which an angel or demon does something massively violating and the plot and characters never acknowledge it, because nobody bothered to think about it.

I haven't seen SPN in a few seasons so I don't know anything about this particular woman, but that sounds about right to me.

Like killing demons and angels? They do that all the time. That isn't much compared to like...Armageddon.

Well yeah, they do stuff like that all the time. Which is why OP knows they shouldn't expect better. That's how I read the secret.

I don't really think that dealing with armageddon means that this stuff should matter less. The armageddon can be horrible in all kinds of ways. I think SPN just tends to not care, either because of laziness or they want to focus on other things.

I watched the beginning of that episode but completely missed the end, who whammied her?

I mean, if it was Crowley or Lucifer then of course they aren't going to care about her consent.

That sucks OP and sounds pretty gross.

Well, hell, at least it was even a tiny bit of an issue in the episode (in her mind) whereas I can't tell you the number of accidental mpreg fics I have read where the guy is just like oooh baby? in my belly? great!

Mind-whammied by the author because they can't conceive of how squicky it is to be forced into a pregnancy you thought wasn't feasible and then made to carry the child with the author never having the character consider abortion for even a millisecond.

Oh for fuck's sake. Lucifer got her pregnant against her will.

But she decided *on her own* to keep the child. Nobody was whammy-ing her when she eluded Castiel and took off.

I thought that the sequence of whatsername going along with Team Free Will, then Lucifer grabbing her and nearly strangling her while looking into her eyes (I think he said something but don't remember what), THEN her taking off on Castiel was pretty clear that he'd done something to her to make her want to keep it.

You interpreted the scene differently, but I don't think that reading that as Lucifer doing something to her was a completely illogical connection to make.

No, i didn't interpret it differently, I forgot about that ten seconds and had to rewatch to know it happened.

That's not a 'consent issue', it's a plot point with a demon (the father of demons) doing the same kind of horrible stuff to a human he's done ever since he was invented in the mythology of humanity.

Porque no los dos?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the Thermian Argument feels relevant to this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk

Well, it *is* relevant, but it's also sort of pointless? Kinky stories about kids, torture, whatever are generally put in the 'YKMV' column here in this community because the characters being discussed are 'fictional characters, not real people, and liking age-play doesn't mean you're a pedophile'.

So if that argument goes for almost everything we discuss here, why wouldn't it also go for SPN? It *is* fiction, and yes, real people *did* write it. And we - community we - as a rule point that out, talk about it, discuss it, sometimes stop watching things because of it. We - humanity we - also do our best to fight it, change it, spotlight it and make it go away, or at least make people more aware of it.

Supernatural is certainly not the worst show on TV with issues like this, nor the best. It's somewhere in the middle. So unless we're going to use this argument/idea/video on *everything* that's an issue here, it's no more relevant to Supernatural than it is to anything else.

Kinky, you say? I think there's a distinction to be made between pure porn and other fiction. Or maybe porn isn't the right word . . . I think there's some fiction that's very devoted to creating a specific reaction in a specific target audience, to the point that it's difficult to analyze it in terms of any reaction or audience it's not meant for. But I don't think Supernatural is meant to be quite as targeted as Backdoor Sluts 69 or whatever. Given the assumption that it's ever possible and meaningful to say "hey, this is really fucked up," I don't see why Supernatural would be one of the shows that's excluded from that.

Maybe we're starting from opposite premises here? When I write a story, I'm used to people saying "your orcs are a blatant stereotype of Native Americans" or "your trans character is offensively cliche" or "the only black character in your story comes off as a creepy pedophile" (all actual examples.) I think all of those critiques were misguided, but I wouldn't say they're irrelevant. Taking apart perceived bigotry and mistreatment is one of many valid reactions to fiction, and I'm not equipped to tell people they can't or shouldn't be offended by the choices I made when I created my stories.

I'm not saying exclude SPN from that - but I'm pointing out that that argument is used to *dismiss* 'problematic' things that we discuss in this community all the time.

Just in this post, we had a 'Willow is bi to me, but it's okay because she's just fiction and the writers kinda fucked up' comments. So - there's that argument, right there. And it happens all the time in this comm.

So does 'omg, that's fucked up, i won't watch that anymore!' 'you're right, me either!' comments and discussions.

I'm just saying - this is the first time I've ever seen this video/argument brought up, *ever*, in this comm, and i'm wonder why Supernatural in specific an not all the tons of other stuff that's offensive, problematic, etc.

(and the real and perceived 'problems' with Supernatural are and have been discussed ad nauseam in this comm and all over fandom for years, so it's not like it's been getting a break or anything)

(no subject)

feotakahari - 2016-12-17 06:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

tabaqui - 2016-12-17 06:52 (UTC) - Expand

Who is playing Lucifer these days?

Rick Springfield was for a couple/three eps, which was awesome. Lucifer's been vessel-hopping, since Sam is the only one who can actually *be* his vessel for any length of time without basically falling apart.

I wish OG Lucifer could come back. I loved him so much.

OG...?

Original Gangster. :P

IE Nick!Lucifer.

Heeeeeeeeeeeee.
He was pretty cool, i do admit. :D

Aw yes. He might make me start watching again!

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