[ SECRET POST #482 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #482 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 62 secrets from Secret Submission Post #069.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

54- I don't think calling Ino a dumb bitch is sexist. My opinion is based on things she does (And I I enjoy most the other females, faults and all, so you lose the sexism right there). Sakura's obviously canonly not a whore, as, as far as we can assume she's a virgin and has only shown interest in one guy, but if someone thinks she's ugly...not sexism, sorry.

Although I see some of your points, I also think you're forgetting a lot of things and forcing it into a sex issue (Which I'm sure there's plenty that IS, i.e. the medic thing, but...) If you throw sexism out there to replace valid opinion, etc, you lose the strength of the term. It's the same thing as yaoi fan girls calling EVERY thing against their couple/genre/whatever homophobic. If you over use the term, when it's ACTUALLY needed, it's worthless and weakened.

Gah Teal deer and I could go on cause you raise some interesting point but unless someone's interested in discussing I'm done.

A lot of it is rooted in sexism. There's an exceptional amount of needless hate for female characters, and I'd hardly say it's the same as a yaoi fangirl calling everything homophobic.

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

How is it not? I'm not saying EVERY point she made has nothing to do with sexism (The medic nin, for example, rubs me wrong.) but saying all the points are sexist? Yeah it's a lot like someone saying "You don't like yaoi so you're a homophobe." (although it'd be more akin to me making a list of a lot of anti-yaoi sterotypes, some which are and aren't not homophobic, and labeling them all as Homophobic)

There's a somewhat exceptional amount of fail in females anime/manga characters (I say somewhat, because all fandom have their fair share of girls who hate the females cause they want the males (or want them together)). Which is getting better by leaps and bounds, and is due a lot in part, imo, to a cultural clash. What with things like tsudere (Which I am probably spelling wrong), which is the antithesis of what a lot of females fans want (As exampled in her secret by the fact temari and Tsunade are the liked ones), yet something considered desirable in Japan (And I am making broad generalizations here, because let's face it, there's as many opinions as there are fans)

But for a shonen series aimed at teenage boys, Naruto is pretty damned good about females. They're all strong to varying degrees (Even Hinata), although they do tend to fall into "roles" it's no worse or better then the males (The hero, the antagonist, the fat one, the smart one, the resilient one, the psycho, etc), and across the board he fleshes 'em out so they're not JUST stereotypes(I.e. The smart one is also the lazy as shit one, the sexy woman is also a 50 year old woman).

Not the best, most progressive thing out there, but you know, I wouldn't be reading shonen if that's what I was looking for. (I also wouldn't be reading Shoujo or watching sex in the city) And some of these things I see as realism...which unfortunately might over lap too much with sexism. But I know woman like just about every girls in Naruto to some extent or another (Minus the whole ninja, magic powers things), and some of them I know quiet a few.

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

It's not like saying "you don't like yaoi because you're a homophobe" because it's a response to people not liking the girls for sexist reasons - she's "a whore," she "gets in the way," she's "useless." People who hold these opinions rarely contain them to a few characters, but will paint almost every female character with the same brush.

There's no such thing as a "somewhat exceptional amount of fail" and the notion makes no sense whatsoever. Female characters in fiction do get shafted. I don't know what you're saying beyond that, so I'll just acknowledge that point.

Why do we need to add qualifiers like "for a shonen series aimed at teenage boys?" Should that really matter? Yes, of course the female characters are decent. A lot of female characters are way better than people give them credit for. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make us. How does any of this change the fact that sexism runs rampant both in fandom and the source material for various fandoms?

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Except that's not all she was saying. You'll note I didn't disagree with the whore one, but being a stalker or an asshole (Which, although she used the terms bitch which is gender specific usually, the *idea* is her personality) aren't something to do with their sex. There is canon reason to think Ino is an asshole, or Hinata is a stalker...there aren't canon reasons to call Sakura a whore, and that's why, like I said, SOME do have points.

And yes I'm sure fangirls paint females with this borad brush, but two generalizations (one being the fans girls, the other being the OP's opnion that disliking things in the females=sexist) don't make either right.

See, to me, females from anime and manga are much more shafted in personality, etc then in a lot of other mediums. Very few are completely sexual equal, but anime and manga is much less so. My phrasing got choppy as I was trying to use exceptional from your post an...eh. It failed.

As for shonen? Because I don't think something aimed at 13 year old boys is necessarily where to look for the sexual revolution? As long as it's not teaching them that girls are all sex kitten house wives...She was picking Naruto out as being particularly sexist. It has it's issues but I don't think it's particularly more or less (In fact I think slightly less) then it's....peers so to speak.