Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-05-11 05:02 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-05-11 05:02 pm
[ SECRET POST #492 ]
⌈ Secret Post #492 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and DO contain SPOILERS.
01.
__________________________________________________
02.
__________________________________________________
03.
__________________________________________________
04.
__________________________________________________
05.
__________________________________________________
06.
__________________________________________________
07.
__________________________________________________
08.
__________________________________________________
09.
__________________________________________________
10.
__________________________________________________
11.
__________________________________________________
12.
__________________________________________________
13.
__________________________________________________
14.
__________________________________________________
15.
__________________________________________________
16.
__________________________________________________
17.
__________________________________________________
18.
__________________________________________________
19.
__________________________________________________
20.
__________________________________________________
21.
__________________________________________________
22.
__________________________________________________
23.
__________________________________________________
24.
__________________________________________________
25.
__________________________________________________
26.
__________________________________________________
27.
__________________________________________________
28.
__________________________________________________
29.
__________________________________________________
30.
__________________________________________________
31.
__________________________________________________
32.
__________________________________________________
33.
__________________________________________________
34.
__________________________________________________
35.
__________________________________________________
36.
__________________________________________________
37.
__________________________________________________
38.
__________________________________________________
39. [ repeat ]
__________________________________________________
40.
__________________________________________________
41.
__________________________________________________
42.
__________________________________________________
43.
__________________________________________________
44.
__________________________________________________
45.
__________________________________________________
46.
__________________________________________________
47.
__________________________________________________
48.
__________________________________________________
49.
__________________________________________________
50. [ repeat ]
__________________________________________________
51.
__________________________________________________
52.
__________________________________________________
53.
__________________________________________________
54.
__________________________________________________
55.
__________________________________________________
56.
__________________________________________________
57.
__________________________________________________
58.
__________________________________________________
59.
__________________________________________________
60.
__________________________________________________
61.
__________________________________________________
62.
__________________________________________________
63.
__________________________________________________
64.
__________________________________________________
65.
__________________________________________________
66.
__________________________________________________
67.
__________________________________________________
68.
__________________________________________________
69.
__________________________________________________
70.
__________________________________________________
71.
__________________________________________________
72.
__________________________________________________
73.
__________________________________________________
74.
__________________________________________________
75.
__________________________________________________
76.
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 17 pages, 417 secrets from Secret Submission Post #071.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
12. Personally, I like the fairy-tale like surreality, wacky puppets, and kind of fanservicey (in the sense of normal girl having adventures because someone cool fell in love-ish with her) story. It's just fun. Not for everyone. But fun.
21. ARGH I LOVE IT AND THAT'S FANTASTIC! I now have an Avatar crack-ship. Darn you!!
23. Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. While I like romance (a lot), I weep at how many simply wonderful male-male relationships are reduced to something sexual by fandom. Like Sam and Gene. Just...no. They're perfect the way they are.
42. Maple Town! Or it was called something else as well. But I had the little playset and everything. I remember that show!!!
66. Ooh. What is? Not for the slash, but that looks cool. I've seen it before, I just know it...
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 02:07 am (UTC)(link)reduced
typical jesusfag.
gotta feed the troll...
23
Re: 23
no subject
23. Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. While I like romance (a lot), I weep at how many simply wonderful male-male relationships are reduced to something sexual by fandom. Like Sam and Gene. Just...no. They're perfect the way they are.
Yeeeah. Um I was gonna tell you what fandom 66 is, but now I'm not so sure I want you to know. There are a lot of people who like "reducing" some of the character's relationships to something sexual.
Srsly. WTF? Reducing? Really?. For chrissake. What do you care if people like to slash?
no subject
Look at what average fandom slash is like. Most of what I've seen is when they take these amazing character dynamics, like Frodo and Sam in LotR, and say that it's all about the sexy-sexy-sex. AND IT HAPPENS TO EVERY SINGLE FREAKING FRIENDSHIP IN THE HISTORY OF FANDOM!
And it does feel reduced because it feels like saying that people can't have a beautiful relationships without it having to be sexual. In fandom, apparently, two men (or two women, or a guy and a girl) can't be good, close friends who would die for each other without wanting to screw each other as well. Always.
And in fandom, sooner or later, it always becomes about the sex.
And it just gets tiresome.
no subject
Crymoar
no subject
no subject
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 03:37 am (UTC)(link)And it just gets tiresome.
Gives you 100 Internets. Agreed.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 05:13 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 05:44 am (UTC)(link)And it just gets tiresome.
Then simply don't read it, Einstein.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 05:56 am (UTC)(link)no subject
no subject
Or say a great series like Life on Mars ends. I loved the character dynamic, I go and I look for some fanfic or fanart. And for every one gen-fic that's just about the characters and their relationship, there's, what, ten pwp about Sam and Gene getting busy, most of which completely flatten both characters.
Or hey, did anyone ever do a fic where Dib and Zim become friends? Yeah, but they all end with wacky alien sex. All of them. Or some just start at that point.
Don't get me wrong--I like romances that start out as friendship. But I like seeing just regular, platonic friendships as well. Not every friendship has to be about sex, as seems to be the fandom motto. I mean, take Turk and JD from Scrubs--they have this amazing, comfortable friendship that makes them an old married couple (to the point that Carla says she has nightmares about them running away together, and people often mistake them for an actual couple). If there was a sexual aspect, I don't know...it feels like it would cheapen it. Like it's saying that wonderful friendship they have isn't good enough.
And yeah, the same is true of het, but it just seems like the slash/het ratio is a bit disproportionate, in slashes favour.
The truth is, I don't even mind slash all that much. I've gotten to the point where I wear the slash-goggles, even if I don't usually ship it. Slash is that kind of annoying, but funny kid in class, the one who often provides oodles of amusement, whether he means to or not, that you're somewhat fond of, even if you don't usually talk to him. He makes things interesting, but you just wish he would shut the heck up once in awhile.
no subject
I'm not involved in any of the fandoms you mentioned, but if I compare to the situation in Bleach, where I want slash with the main character and one of the shinigami, the fandom is completely dominated by het when it comes to him (ironically between him and one of his two best female friends). The ship wars between Ichigo/Rukia and Ichigo/Orihime camps are famous. Despite this I have no problem scrolling past posts about this, avoiding fic, or not pay attention to manips. I see that it exists, but just because a very large part of fandom see their friendships as potentional romance doesn't mean I have to agree (or that they are wrong in thinking it for that matter). It also doesn't change what happens in canon.
Don't get me wrong--I like romances that start out as friendship. But I like seeing just regular, platonic friendships as well. Not every friendship has to be about sex, as seems to be the fandom motto.
I think this is simply a logical fallacy. Sure, everything is shipped in fandom but not by the same people. I adore friendship stories. Sometimes I ship two friends of a large cast; the rest remain friends. Other people will inevitably ship other couples.
If there was a sexual aspect, I don't know...it feels like it would cheapen it.
Now this is what people really take issue with (and me too). Romance is not cheapening. It changes the relationship, but it doesn't erase the friendship; it simply adds another aspect (which is not by any means making the friendship better; the friendship is the same, the romance is just added to it). There's nothing wrong with not wanting to add that aspect, but wanting to add it isn't wrong either.
I don't understand this assuption that one somehow cancels the other out.
And yeah, the same is true of het, but it just seems like the slash/het ratio is a bit disproportionate, in slashes favour.
That completely depends on fandom and area. Livejournal tends to accumulate slashers, I think.
no subject
And I didn't say it was shipped by the same people, just that everything is shipped in fandom, and eventually, I get tired of running into it everywhere I turn.
Romance is not cheapening. It changes the relationship, but it doesn't erase the friendship;
Well, firstly, I didn't say romance is cheapening. I think it's because I'm a Doctor Who fan, but I think there's a definite difference between adding romance and adding sex. (That whole school thought that, while the Doctor is not really a sexual being, he's very romantic.)
But either way, I didn't even say that sex (or romance) always cheapens a relationship. What I said was that it feels like it cheapens it because it is saying that the platonic friendship isn't good enough and has to have sex added to it to make it worthwhile to fandom.
I don't think an actual relationship is automatically cheapened by having sex or romance in it, but the truth is, half the time, I find slash lazy. If you really put the effort into it and make it a relationship, fantastic. But a good portion what I've read and seen is more like "I can't be buggered to realistically portray the relationship's dynamic, so here, have some boys kissing and some very unrealistic but sparkly sex."
And then there's all sorts of fun things, like Twincest and whatnot, that seems to be saying that siblings who have a really good, close relationship must obviously be sleeping together. When you get to that level, it's just sad, and a little bit ridiculous. See, the thing is, I don't think two people having sex cheapens their actual relationship; I think people assuming thatt a relationship has to involve sex does. And yeah, that's just an opinion, but it's my opinion.
no subject
Well, people like different things, and making less peolpe ship the particular pairings you don't like is just not possible.
I think there's a definite difference between adding romance and adding sex.
But in fandom (dark fic aside) romance tend to be the focus. In many stories sex is a byproduct of the romance, but the whole point is the characters falling in love.
What I said was that it feels like it cheapens it because it is saying that the platonic friendship isn't good enough and has to have sex added to it to make it worthwhile to fandom.
But this isn't how we who are actually writing and reading romantic (with or without sex) fic feel about it. It's not that the friendship isn't enough; sometimes we just want to explore what would happen if they also were in love.
"I can't be buggered to realistically portray the relationship's dynamic, so here, have some boys kissing and some very unrealistic but sparkly sex."
Well, you just described the majority of all romantic fiction ever, published or amateur.
And then there's all sorts of fun things, like Twincest and whatnot, that seems to be saying that siblings who have a really good, close relationship must obviously be sleeping together. When you get to that level, it's just sad, and a little bit ridiculous.
That you dislike a fictional kink does not make it wrong (in fic, that is) to have.
What it all comes down to in the end is realising that other people have different tastes from you, and that that's all right.
no subject
Yes, yes, that is what it all comes down to. I'm not about to crusade around, trying to make people stop writing slash or whatever. I wasn't making some kind of attack on people who love Frodo/Sam.
I just said that I PERSONALLY do not like it.
See, that's my personal opinion. Gratuitous slash bothers me. It makes other people happy as clams, but my personal freaking opinion is that I do not like it for the reasons I've stated. Nine times out of ten, it just feels shallow. Which is the same as any romance, but the topic was slash. C'est tu.
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
OH THE LULZ! THE RAAAAAAAAGE!
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 04:46 am (UTC)(link)BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!! SHES AGAINST GAY LOVE!!!!!111111
Seriously, go back to the sandbox you fucking pussies. Gay love is cool, its AWESOME, just as Hetro love is. But sometimes (EVEN WITH HETRO COUPLES, JEZZUS CHRIST) it gets annoying when EVERYONE is paired with EACHOTHER.
Oh, in b4 possible wank. Not likely but eh.
Re: OH THE LULZ! THE RAAAAAAAAGE!
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 05:43 am (UTC)(link)Re: OH THE LULZ! THE RAAAAAAAAGE!
(Anonymous) 2008-05-12 06:04 am (UTC)(link)She (or he, I could be wrong) talked about that too in that convo with the other person.
But in the original post he or she probably mentioned "man to man bonds" because male/male pairings are in the majority of fandom pairings. Seriously, if she/he said the same thing only for hetero pairings everyone would be all "OMG I KNOW !!11". The fact she only mentioned male pairings (WHICH THE ORIGINAL POSTER OF THE SECRET TALKED ABOUT, although that person was being a major dick about it) everyone pissed their panties.
lol, slow replier is sloooow. Yeah, you probably wont read this because I took to long to reply lol. OH WELL.
Re: OH THE LULZ! THE RAAAAAAAAGE!
Seriously, if she/he said the same thing only for hetero pairings everyone would be all "OMG I KNOW !!11"
No, we wouldn't.
Re: OH THE LULZ! THE RAAAAAAAAGE!
But slash is the majority. And what I see in fandom is usually "let's pair all the guy characters up and forget about the girl characters, unless maybe we want to do yuri, but mostly, let's just have hawt boys having sexy-sex!"
(I mean, honestly, how much of Spock/Chapel or McCoy/his wife do you see in comparison to Spock/Kirk or Spock/McCoy. Even then, you don't see as much Spock/McCoy because McCoy's old and not as pretty [lies!])
At any rate, I believe I exclusively mentioned "male friendship" once, so I don't think I kept "going on" about it.