fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #494 ]

[ SECRET POST #494 ]

⌈ Secret Post #494 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #071.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Okay, so yes that is a bit of a strange and slightly stupid reason to dislike somebody. I wouldn't say their rivalry is taken care of, more they just quit bringing it up because it served no purpose, plus they realised they work better if they have a common goal? Aside from Ichigo, Ishida tries very hard to appear cool in front of others and he definitely improves later on. I especially enjoy how he defeated Cirruci Thunderwitch. I won't say he has the best life or a particularly terrible one, but where is his mother? He has a poor relationship with his father, lives alone and he isn't financially well off either. We don't know a huge amount about his past to go bout making judgments on him. He is a protagonist, I'm not sure what more you expect from Kubo, but Ichigo is the number one character and will be until he's dead.

You say you feel there are too many plot holes, not enough answers - by your own admission you've not seen half of the anime and not even finished volume three. Of course you won't understand everything and I tried my best to counter all of your points using canonical evidence, but I'm tired and may not make a great deal of sense ):

I admit, sometimes I do have to go back and watch certain parts again, or pause it so I can read the text better if there is a lot being said but ultimately I prefer subs over dubs because I like the seiyuus more than the English voice actors.

One last thing: Ichigo wins because this is shounen.

Well, thanks for the explanations. But, I still think Ichigo should've at least thought about meeting his mother in the afterlife. And that whole explanation about Ichigo having so much power and being so special? Yeah, not buying that. It's just a cliche that a lot of shounen series use to cover up the fact that they don't want to have to deal with the main character losing. I mean, when Naruto gets into his first real fight as a ninja, he freaks out and runs away. He realizes the opponent is too much stronger than he is and thinks he's going to die if he doesn't escape. To me, that is much more compelling than a character who never has to worry about being beaten. But again, I watch anime for the character development and plot lines, and I tend to dislike fighting scenes.

You could be right about the whole thing with Ichigo's dad. But honestly, I still think it was a plot development that made no sense. Where was the foreshadowing? Ichigo's dad should have noticed that Ichigo was becoming a shinigami. I mean, I think at least a few side glances or something would have been enough to get the idea in our heads that Ichigo's dad thinks something is up. But we just see him as this funny guy until he suddenly turns badass. I just thought it could have been handled better.

Well, as far as Ishida goes, I'm a fangirl at heart. I care more about the characters personalities and lives than about how strong they are. I care about their relationships with the other characters most of all, romantic or otherwise. It really annoyed me that hte rivalry was tossed aside quickly. Sasuke and Naruto were put on the same team, and their rivalry lasted almost up until the time skip. Ed didn't get along with Roy for the majority of the anime, even though Roy was his superior officer and he was supposed to respect him. Spike and Vicious couldn't get over blaming each other for Julia's death, and they were always at odds. Vash and Knives never saw eye to eye on how important life/humanity was. I guess my overall point is that, in many shonen series, there is a history of the main character having a rival character who supports the opposite side most of the time. This generally creates tension and a great sense of drama, and some awesome plot. I was just disappointed it was cut off so quickly in Bleach. I feel like they tried to re-do that idea with Renji, but it so didn't work. Renji doesn't have even half the potential to really piss Ichigo off as Ishida does. :P

Well, I saw up until the filler of the anime started, around the end of the 70's. Then I skimmed through the filler episodes and watched the first few non-fillers, I think they were in the hundreds? But I didn't get the sense of drama and tension that I was hoping to get. Everyone had really talked Bleach up to me, so maybe my expectations were just raised too high. I thought the series was supposed to get really great at the SS part, but I kept waiting for the great to happen. For me, it never did, but I do realize tons of other people disagree with me on this.

I watched it fansubbed, and I thought the subs were very well done. Dubs fail.

Also, Ichigo shouldn't win just because it's shounen. He should have a goal of some sort to go towards. Ed = getting Al's body back, Naruto = becoming Hokage/getting Sasuke back to Knonha, Vash = stopping Knives, etc. I didn't see Ichigo having any sort of goal, and if it's just "saving Rukia", well, that pretty much sucks. What was he doing BEFORE Rukia came along? Waiting around all day with no life and no plans for his future?

But again, I bow to your knowledge that pwns mine on the Bleach issue.

Seriously though, Ichigo gets his ass HANDED TO HIM so many times because he can't control his power. If he could, he would be a lot more formidable than he is now. More so if he knew any kidou/hadou. Many of the others also lose fights because they're not strong enough or not quick enough. It isn't as if they have single handedly won every fight they've ever had. Ichigo feels that after everything that has happened it is his duty to protect his friends - if it weren't for Ichigo's reiatsu pouring out of him the people around him (Orihime and Chad were affected most, but also Keigo, Mizuiro and Tatsuki are also later affected slightly which we find out before they all go off to Hueco Mundo) wouldn't be sitting targets and he doesn't want them to suffer. Before meeting Rukia he lived his life and he probably would have continued to, had they not met.

The thing with Renji, Ishida and Ichigo is that they're on the same side now. There is still a great deal of banter, but they no longer see each other as rivals because they look upon Aizen and the espada as the enemy now, rather than each other. The real rival really, is Aizen. Sure they haven't faced each other very much up until now but the entire story so far has been leading up to this upcoming fight. Everything up until then was just building the plot. Aizen pretty much planned things this way from the start.

Concerning Isshin - He was aware what Ichigo and Kon were doing from the very start. He said that while Kon was in Ichigo's body (while they were in SS) he never actually called him Ichigo. Isshin also knows all about the arrancar, and the Vizards and that they would probably contact him. It seems he has known Urahara for a long time though, from the tone of a conversation they had after he killed Grand Fisher. He also knows Ishida's father although this is hinted at very early on and Ryuuken is also surprised that he got his powers back.

Why do you think the Soul Society Arc sucked? It is one of my favourite parts in the manga! You're probably right, your expectations were too high - but what did you expect? I'm finding it a little laskwlk... difficult to discuss this, because of the difference in our levels of knowledge and understanding of the series.

Okay, I'll just say this b/c I'm sure you're already sick of talking with me about this whole thing, since I don't know as much as you do. :P

Ichigo never gets his ass handed to him. He always wins in the end. Name one fight that he loses, through the end of the SS arc (which is what I've seen through). He always won every time. Also, so if he could control his power he'd be even STRONGER? Wow, that's kind of lame. I want him to have to actually work to succeed.

Aizen is not a rival character; he's an enemy/traitor. Like Itachi or Orochimaru more than Sasuke. Both are good for plots, but they're different. I meant characters on the same side who are still rivals. I mean, people can be on the same side and not like each other or disagree about stuff. That's what I enjoy reading/watching.

If Isshin was aware from the start, the reader should've gotten some clues along the way. After all, right after Orochimaru bites Sasuke, when Kakashi has Sasuke in the room to recover, Orochimaru tells Kakashi that Sasuke will seek him out for more power. This is a good, at least, eighty or so episodes before this actually happens, mind. So, the viewer is left wondering for that whole time what's going on, and it really worked out well to increase tension and drama.

Well, the SS arc was boring and seemed like filler to me. I mean, come on, they're chasing around this ugly guy and a pig when they need to save Rukia? And everyone splits up, but Ichigo doesn't seem all that concerned by this. We only ever see the other characters a few times, and that's just when they're fighting. Rukia and Ichigo's reunion sucked hardcore--they turned chibi and ruined any emotional tension that scene might have had. Renji in prison was awesome, Hitsugaya's storyline was awesome, Aizen's betrayal was awesome, the yuri background thing was awesome--but those bits weren't enough to make up for the rest of it.

I was expecting a series more like Naruto, FMA, or X. A shounen series that focused on the characters and the plotline, not the fighting. But hey, everyone has the preferences, and that's why lots of people hate Naruto (which I love) and love Bleach (which I don't like).

When Ichigo fought against Renji and Byakuya when they came to collect Rukia, he lost to both of them. Don't forget Byakuya destroyed his saketsu and his hakusui. Once in SS, Ichigo may have won the first three fights (Ikkaku, Renji and Kenpachi) but he didn't exactly walk away feeling so good. The only reason he got rid of the three VCs on Soukyoku Hill is because his bankai gives him an incredible increase in speed and they were probably too shocked? It's been a while since I've read it, so I'm not entirely sure. In the fight with Byakuya his bankai did allow him to hold off Senbonzakura but he only came out of that fight alive because his hollow comes out briefly. Shortly after Aizen injures him even further, so much so that he can't even stand. The first and second time Ichigo fights Grimmjow Jeagerjaques (6th espada) he loses both times. When he fights Nnoitra Jiruga (5th espada) he loses in that fight, only being saved when Nel regains her powers briefly. After that Kenpachi arrives and fights Nnoitra. When Ichigo fights Ulquiorra Schiffer (4th espada) he barely makes it out alive and it told that even if he managed to somehow defeat him, there are three more even stronger than him. The end of chapter 315 has set up another fight between the two but between that and the fight going on between Aizen, Gin, Kaname, the top three espada and their fracción (8 in total) and the remaining captains and their VCs I don't even know when it will happen.

I don't see why Kubo should have dropped hints. We don't even see a lot of his father anyway although I expect we may in the future. Also all this talk of Naruto goes over my head, I didn't even make it past the 3rd or 4th chapter ): but I think I get the point you're making. Isshin isn't a main character either, so there is no real need to focus on him so much.

Why would he be so concerned about being split up? Even he is able to recognise his friends reiatsu and if it changes so even though they are all separated they are still able to keep tabs on each other. Once they had broken into Seireitei it wasn't very long until they all started fighting, and when your enemies are coming at you from all sides there really isn't a lot of time for much else so this complaint seems a little baseless. I won't lie, I was pretty shocked when it came out that Aizen was behind everything and that he and two others would defect. It seemed like Gin was behind it all at first but that was too obvious to be the truth. I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to by "yuri background thing" though.

I'm sure I sound like a total fangirl for Bleach, but while I can sing its praises there are a lot of things I wish were different. I wish there was more background on the characters mostly because there is a lot of things that are not explained yet. In Bleach, the fighting drives the characters and the plotline. I'm not sick of talking to you about it, but it seems a little frustrating maybe because you're set in your views even though I've countered pretty much all of your points :/

It's funny you say I'm set in my views even though you've countered my points. Because, maybe I feel like my points are problems with the series itself, and that our opinions just differ on this?

I mean, I didn't really see Ichigo's battle versus Renji and Byakuya at the beginning as a loss. He only stops when Rukia tells him to. If she hadn't said that, he probably would have kept fighting, and probably would have won. In the fight with Byakuya, he still got out with a tie when he should have lost. The reasons behind it don't really matter; it's still not a loss. I have no idea about the other fights you mention, but at that point it's kind of too late. I mean, I've already got my opinion of the series by then; I shouldn't have to wait until over chapter 100 to get to the fights where it's a struggle for him.

You completely need to read Naruto!! The story, characters, and plot are all just so well done! Every character is important, the enemies are rocking, it's just awesome. :D

Why wouldn't he be concerned about being split up? I'd be concerned if I was going to fight this huge battle to save someone and the people I came with got split up--it seems like it's a concerning issue. It's not a baseless complaint. Ichigo never seems to care about other people or to worry about them in any more than a very quick "oh I wonder" sort of way. It does bother me. The yuri background thing is with Yorouichi (I think) and that other chick, the only good fight between two girls. It's completely made of yuri win.

Well, int he end, that's why I don't like Bleach. I don't like fighting, especially pointless fighting, which I feel like most of Bleach is. I prefer plot-driven stories with character development. ^_^*

Oh, I won't deny that I'm set in my views! I can appreciate that not everybody will like it, and there are plenty of things I dislike about it too. I love the fights, but I wish there was more backstory, more story in general I guess. Also I appreciate you gave it a chance but I think a lot of the issues you had - I've explained most of them by bringing up things that happened after you stopped watching/reading.

You seriously think he'd have won? On one side you've got Byakuya who has been a captain for just over 50 years and has mastered his bankai. While Renji may have only been promoted to VC not long before the story starts, a few months later he manages to gain his bankai release. Ichigo on the other hand didn't even know that zans had names. Byakuya won that fight fair and square by cutting Ichigo's hakusui and saketsu. Then he left him for dead. He was totally overpowered.

Why wasn't Ichigo concerned? I already explained that point! They were all able to recognise fluctuations in each others' reiatsu so they could keep tabs on how everybody was doing regardless of how far away they were from each other. I really enjoyed reading the fight between Yoruichi and Soifon, they have an interesting backstory together. Soifon is mildly obsessed with Yoruichi, it's a running gag.

Maybe one day I'll give Naruto a chance in the future but I doubt I'd like it then. I wasn't really grabbed by it at all but I did go in with the attitude of "I'll probably hate this" :/

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