Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-05-18 05:05 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-05-18 05:05 pm
[ SECRET POST #499 ]
⌈ Secret Post #499 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 445 secrets from Secret Submission Post #072.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
Would I not complain if the females were men? Err... I don't like male characters to be that... frankly... they'd be far too whimpy for my taste. Chrome hasn't fought since the end of her battles (which was still before Mukuro's supposed death) and Mukuro is still a far superior fighter. She is still very shy and passive to an extraordinary degree. I feel that I don't need the women to be manly women but I'd like to see something more than what we are presented with than usually.
Bianchi reminds me of the stereotyped European woman who is very sexualized and domineering. Her cooking capabilities steamed as a talent. Its only harmful and bad because its poisonous but I believe she is fully aware of that. Also MM was a VERY indispensable character compared to the two Yamamoto and Gokudera fought. Plus the marriage fiasco if anything completely nullifies anything that could express her as strong. How easily she is duped due to her ill-faith in Reborn is ridiculous. Yes it's comical, but it does send a message.
Lal has the underlying tsundere factor which I bring up again because it is known as a trait to undermine a girl who seems tough (tough on the outside but soft on the inside is a very dominated trait. I'm not saying its a bad thing, I'm just saying that the way it is formated in said culture it is very much a negative). Ryohei has no abounding tsundere factor whatsoever so that can't be qualified for a comparison. The only person who could have potentially expressed it is Hibari but I'd probably be very disappointed in his character if that was the kind he turned out to be (of course the future arc clearly says otherwise). A good example of a solid Lal to me is a Lady Kika type. Same exact situation with a loved one dying, both came out as strong women, but Kika prevails through a calm strength which I like. She's actually more like a warm-hearted Hibari. (In terms of that after losing everything, she built up a pirate crew with an iron fist)
Yes I do agree with the fact that Gokudera's emotions could be essentially compared to the male equivalent of Haru. The only thing that makes his actions for me logical is because of the loss of his family, I see Gokudera's relationship with Tsuna to be a bit of a father-son one. Due to the lack of a good father, Tsuna became the pinnacle of Gokudera's affection. In this essence he was given logic behind his actions and therefore made his growth as a character seem to take a unique form. I do applaud Amano on how rounded Gokudera has become as a character, while when it comes to the others I can't always say the same.
I love characters with weaknesses, I just wish most of them weren't prevalent stereotypes... or things that society still deals with as a problem. It is prominent as a problem through many video games and television, comics, etc so I'm not going to say reborn is the worst, because it clearly isn't, but it isn't the best. The only thing that has shown a prominent step forward in gaming at least is Suikoden(I mean not all their characters, but a pretty strong number). So what can I say, I guess I'm looking for some female characters that are on equal terms with some of the ones in the games.
I'm also not a big fan of this whole mythical mafia. Everyone in the mafia reminds me of everyone in Code Geass in the government. For the most part people aren't like in both appearance and nature. It is far too characterized for my taste.
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
I disagree strongly that Chrome is shy or passive. Quiet and a bit standoffish? Yes. Shy? No. Remember, this is a person who walked up to a prefect stranger who she only have secondary information from a former enemy and kissed him on the cheek and ask if she can call him "Boss" within minutes of meeting him. And she said did this on her own will. In Japan, that's a pretty brazen thing to do. I don't know where you get passive from, but she agreed to let Mukuro possess her because it was a mutual beneficial thing: Mukuro needed an able body, Chrome needed Mukuro's illusions to keep her alive. Besides, if you reread the Glo/Chrome fight, those illusions were Chrome's because Mukuro coached her to tap into her latent illusionist powers (remember, he's using Leo's body at the moment and I think that he can't use his offensive illusion powers unless he's in an able body, but not remotely). Unless you're talking about how Ken and Chigusa treat her, she probably let him treat her that way because they're still upset about Mukuro, not because she was afraid of them or anything. Chrome doesn't act like a typical Japanese girl, she was an odd one and that's why her parents rejected her. Even the mangaka makes a point in the fanbook on how much inner strength that Chrome has.
I don't know, yeah Bianchi has the pushiness stereotyped of Western women, but she's also a typical young woman in certain behaviors. I don't thing the weeding thing invalidated her character as it's natural to want to marry that person you love. Plus I don't think you take in account how she continues to do her own thing for the Vongola Familgia AFTER Reborn's death. I don't think her love for Reborn is entirely blind as more that's why she loves Reborn.
And I disagree that Lal is a tsundere character, Gokudera and maybe Hibari are tsundere characters, not Lal. It's understandable why she was hard on Tsuna and Gokudera because they don't need to be coddled in such a situation they're in, not to protect herself emotionally (which tsunderes do). And note that this isn't her first time training since she trained Colonnello back in that special army unit before they became Arcobaleno, so her toughness on them prolly came from that. Plus, she doubted in Tsuna's current potential because she didn't know him very well. It was until Tsuna passed the Vongola Don test, she seen it. She seems to be more like a milder female version of Reborn than anything. A strong woman might not be a common trait in modern shounen, but it's not like strong women don't exist in shounen. And again, I can't help to think that because she's a woman that you called her a tsundere. And if you're going to use her relationship to Colonnello, I think she felt guilt that he became an Arcobalenco and disappointment that she was a failed one. But I also think she only saw him as a student until after that fact.
And I also strongly disagree that Gokudera sees Tsuna as a father figure, he already has Shamal and the Ninth for that (and the fact he shares Shamal's hairstyle denotes his influence in Gokudera's life). To Gokudera, Tsuna is everything to him and the first and only person he let past all the emotional barriers he had. So, of course he wants approval from Tsuna and do right by him. And now, he tries to figure out to treat Tsuna like a friend and less of a revered boss and trust others so his attention won't be a burden to Tsuna. I agree that Gokudera is the most complex character in the series, but I don't think most of the major cast is one-note characters, they do show other sides of their personalities time to time. While I don't think Reborn has the best characters ever, but it's best characterization of SJ during its run except for Eyeshield 21, Death Note and one equal footing with One Piece.
Meh, I like the Magical Mystery Mafia thing, I came in Reborn for the strange twists that manga in general provide and they're fulfilling that for me.
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
This essentially will break down to the fact that we both see differently and there are so many words to express fully our points of view. Nothing you have said really has made me change my state of mine and I'm sure vice versa as you seem as equally stubborn in your position as I. I thank you for your perspective and admire your passion about the series to be so adamantly defensive.
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
I admit I like debating more than anything and come from a family who like to debate a lot. It was a pleasure.
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
Also you're losing the point that they're characters which represent a social norm. If the prevailing social norm is constructed in said media it tends to permeate through society through a social impact. Therefore when females are already seen, particularly in a society such as Japan, as weak and incapable and something illustrates that, it becomes a larger problem. But I don't ask for unrealistic characters I just ask for maybe a female character I could relate to in any possible way.
There... I go again. =X
Re: 11, 16, 19, 39, 44
I think Chrome's defensive stature is more to protect the trident, which is important for her not to let go and that it's huge for her small size so she looks like that. How she interacts with Ken, Chigusa and Tsuna doesn't show she's always uncertain, although I admit she looked a little worried that Tsuna wouldn't accept her as the Mist Guardian. To be honest, Chrome's loyalty to Mukuro is the same as Gokudera's loyalty to Tsuna. During her backstory in the Mist Guardian battle, she had resigned herself to die because there was nothing there for her to live for. Then suddenly Mukuro appears and told her they were the same and that he needed her was prolly a first for Chrome, who seemed to be a loner until that point. Like Gokudera to Tsuna, Chrome wants to pay back Mukuro for the new lease on life so she addresses him respectfully like Chigusa does. She is no different from Ken and Chigusa in that regard with Mukuro. Yes, she's submissive to him, but not cause he's a guy and she's a girl, she's submissive to him because the guy was a savior to her, just like to Ken and Chigusa and they would all die for Mukuro. And she's not submissive to Ken or Chigusa either since she address them by their first names, IIRC. She knows that how they feel about her so she keeps her distance (as shown in the Cloud Guardian battle when they were sitting on the hill).
I'm very well aware of the sexiest against girls in manga, in Japan, and pretty much every other medium around the world, but I don't think very instance that a girl is submissive (although it's more appropriate to to say subordinate) to a guy is necessarily so because of their sex. Or a tough chick who shows her emotions on her sleeves is a tsundere. That's all.