fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3757 ]

[ SECRET POST #3757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #536.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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So this bullshit argument comes up again.

Nutcase kills a guy and live streams it... CNN blames video games because it looked like an FPS the way he was holding is phone.

Fuck all this noise. Can we please have the next step in entertainment already so people can start demonizing that and leave muh vidya alone?

Next thing to demonize...Virtual Reality! It is just like real life!

I wonder if kids collectively abandoned technology and instead spent all their time outside getting fresh air and exercise if the media would blame every crime on today's youth and their obsessive immersion I think the real world. What they should be doing is staying indoors watching TV where they can't harm anyone...

Kids going outside and play fighting with sticks and such WILL BECOME VIOLENT MONSTERS!

Actually, I used to get that as a kid. no toy guns, no toy swords, no stick-swords. I remember wherever there was a cardboard tube I would sneak it away and pretend it was a lights amber and stuff. Always got in trouble "it's violent and bad, you'll hurt someone or people will thing you'll be a psychopath when you grow up"

Jokes on her. I am 30 and now I have a deeply unhealthy collection of Bokkens - I love my bokkens - Knives, Swords - of fucking course I have a sword collection. I don't vape yet, but we all know it's a matter of time - toy and replica guns. It's all the fun I missed out on.

To be fair to my mam, I never did grow up to be a psychopath or a monster, so maybe there's somthing in ti?

Why, yes, I am using F!S as my own private therapy. Point I'm driving at, you stop kids having fun as kids, and they grow into adult losers.

Edited 2017-04-18 00:26 (UTC)

How big is your fedora collection?

(jk, jk, if I had a place to put them I'd probably have the sickest battle station, plus a sizable knife and gun collection, and FAR too many vidya replicas to round it all out. Part of the fun of being a grown-up with money is indulging your inner 15-year-old.)

I wish I could find a fedora that fits. I have a Stewie-from-family-guy sized head. they all just perch on top like a fascinator.

Indulging my inner 15 year old. Exactly.

Re: Video games have killed again.

soldatsasha - 2017-04-18 07:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Video games have killed again.

thewakokid - 2017-04-18 07:44 (UTC) - Expand

I didn't watch the video but...I didn't know FPS games invented horizontal or landscape orientation

You know, I didn't watch the video either, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe theres a filter he uses that shows his health bar and a HUD. Little cross hairs?

Apparently, it looks just like an FPS, the way it's in first person and you can see his shooter as if the viewer was holding they gun.

I don't think videogames lead to direct violence, I do think they have contributed majorly to society getting more pro-military/willing to tolerate warcrimes and much more selfish and randian/redpilling in general. I hold them accountable for the violent ideology inflicted on others.

Nah. Loom at the posters produced during the world wars. Look at every govenment in war times and every conservative government in peacetime. Hell, look at the entire 50's, 60's, and 70's mainstream culture. Read any literature addressing was and soldiering made at any point before videogames.

Its always bee dulce and decorum. Blood and honor. Videogames have done nothing that literally every other media in history has done. People romanticize war. Always have.

I think you vastly overestimate the amount of people playing FPS and military based games.

When the majority of people are politically apathetic, and inclined to follow the herd, it doesn't need a terribly large volume of other people to normalize an attitude. If there are enough people, who are persistently vocal enough, about how corpse desecration and torture are fine and cool, and how it is fine to degrade women or spout racist nonsense, then it can very easily sway the majority into accepting such horrors as a new normal. Look how easily they made being in a workers union seem like a bad thing in the 1980s and 1990s and how quickly that idea caught on, and that was from only a few hundred people in key media positions (maybe less). Gamer culture is having us sleepwalk into a human rights nightmare and normalizing being uncaring to our fellow human beings.

I think Gaming is FAR from the only offender on this front, but I don't actually think you're wrong here. IMO, it's way easier to normalize bad stuff than a lot of people in fandom seem to think it is.

For the record, I think you could (and many people do) level similar accusations at porn (mainly on the degrading-women-while-normalizing-sexual-violence-and-disregard-for-consent front). However, while I agree that the porn industry has those issues, and I don't take them lightly, I'm not someone who believed that porn should be banned, or that people should be shamed for watching/looking at pornographic stuff.

Which is the same way I feel about certain aspects of Gaming and Gamer culture. There's some issues, and I take them seriously, but I don't believe banning and shaming is the way to go.

So you're saying most people have zero fantasy/reality divide and media is a big way to influence people into being horrible, violent monsters via brainwashing.

I think they're saying media degrades the fantasy/reality divide.

I don't agree, because everyone enjoys one media or another, and yet the violence is on a decline.

If that were true, this news story about a man committing real world violence wouldn't shock anyone. It's just be taken as more media.

wading in late

(Anonymous) - 2017-04-18 12:25 (UTC) - Expand

Are you talking about the Cleveland shooting? Because I haven't heard video games being linked at all.

I'd blame toxic masculinity for that one, the guy literally blamed his ex and his mother.

You baitin' me, bruv?

Look dude, video games killed that man! This sort of thing has nothing to do with toxic masculinity and violent misogyny, the societal glorification of violence and violent people, the lack of social support and available mental health care, and all those other factors.

I dunno if I buy the toxic masculinity thing. - Get ready for some of my VIEWS - I mean apart from the fact that most the time I seen it used its as an attempt to blame men for something. I do concede it may have meanings other than "Men are toxic and they hurt people" but if there is another meaning, it doesn't seem like many people care about it.

My main issue is that masculinity the name given to an aspect of human behaviour, one that's often attributed to men. All aspects of human behaviour can become toxic. We don't hear about Toxic femininity, toxic humanity, or shit, I don't know toxic vegetarianism. I known some toxic fucking vegetarians in my time. We don't hear about it, because they're just toxic people. Their masculinity, femininity or vegetarianism is all secondary to their being toxic.

If a vegetarian goes nuts and shoots up a restaurant for serving meat, we would never - Maybe some of use would let me try that again - we should never say "toxic vegetarianism", we would say "Wow, that PERSON was fucking crazy, why didn't they get the help they needed?". No one would say Valerie Solanas shooting Warhol was "Toxic femininity". They might say it's toxic feminism, but that'd also be bullshit. The guy who "read catcher in the rye" and shot Reagan wasn't showing toxic literacy.

Crossing the line into killing someone is crossing the line beyond toxic behaviour, Its not a normal element of human behaviour that has become twisted, its straight up insanity there needs to be something else at play there. And there is. In every one of these cases, there is something connecting them and its not any one human behaviour, toxic or other wise, its insanity and the lack of mental health care.

I spent a lot of time here talking about what its not. and that's wrong. Shifting blame is less helpful than trying to fix the problem. And you hit the nail on the head with that last point in your post "the lack of social support and available mental health care" is the thing that needs to be addressed. We don't need more social studies people telling the word what kind of wrong, toxic, evil MAN these people are, we need more and better trained mental health professionals helping people deal with their issues, either innate or developing.

Sorry for the rant. I got views, like I say.

While I'm fully in support of more social support and mental health care, that alone doesn't take on the issue.

I feel like a lot of what you're saying is also a complete misunderstanding of what toxic masculinity is. You're missing the part where we live under a patriarchy that is very strict about it's rules of how men and women live. The environment men and women are raised in is very different and while both genders can take a negative impact from it, for men it very often turns violent.

If society isn't doing something to effect the way men think, then why are violence rates both committed by and to men so high? Mental illness cannot be the only link, as many women share the same mental illnesses as men do (not to mention, there's not an actual proven link to mental illness and violence, many of these men are quite sane as hard as that is to believe.) Why are so many of these random killings committed by men? Why are so few committed by women in comparison?

"Toxic masculinity" is not about claiming men are all evil, it's more about the society we bring men up in being fucked and that's why a lot of men turn violent (plus the broader definition isn't just about violence, it's also just about the pressure men receive to always be "men" which can also cause things like overworking, alcoholism and suicide.)

Toxic masculinity is the idea that men can behave in ways that make them less of a man, so they need to always be on guard against that. If they do any of those things, the public will ridicule them.

This is why you have guides like the manliest and the girliest drinks you can order in a bar. This is why there was a line of wine coolers with aggressively masculine branding and names like "bro-sey" instead of rosey.

There's a picture of a man hugging his teenage son he posted on facebook and something like 20 comments about people insisting that if a dad hugs his son after A Certain Age (answers on this vary, usually by the tween years) you'll Make Him A Sissy, Or Worse, GAY!!!!!

It's the dude at my LARP table ordering a Shirley Temple and having all the nearby guys and girls make jokes about how he's a fag now and him having to go "Fuck off, they're delicious, how stupid are you that you think ordering one drink makes you a fag? Jesus Christ."

It's the fact that when I say my husband crochet my scarf, people are disbelieving.

I mean they're absolutely is toxic femininity too, I mean there's a whole commercial "Why don't you tell her she's pretty brilliant too?" about not discouraging girls from the sciences because it's not ladylike, but for the most part a LOT more strides have been made in the general public accepting that a woman wearing pants isn't going to suddenly crave wearing flannel and munching carpet, but the same can't be said for a dude ordering a sweet drink not suddenly starting to crave the sweet sweet body of another man.

Replying to myself since I realize how I forgot to tie this in with murders. Because outside forces can deplete men's Dude Points one of the biggest and most dangerous one is Not Being Able To Get Unlimited Poon.

So a girl gets rejected by a guy she likes, yeah, she may go a little nuts, but the society idea is that either sweetie you suck a little improve yourself, or sweetie he's not right for you. It's not a good message, but she's more likely to go pathetic stalker than get a gun.

Guy gets rejected by a girl she's either Evil and needs to be punished, or she needs to be convinced. Because only Bad Men don't get the girl. Not being able to get sex from women is just... it's really really Bad. (Hence all the angry and confused PUA community trying to make themselves feel better by tricking women out of sex because they feel like women deny them sex just to hurt their Dude Points)

So combine this attitude with mental instability and a lack of support system and human nature to think violence you're not really involved in is very cool and entertaining then you get a religious fanatic on a crusade, except the 'religion' is the idea that rejecting him is a sin.

Sorry this is late, and possibly hilariously incoherent.

I don't mean Toxic Masculinity in the sense of masculinity itself being toxic. I actually think it's the opposite, which is why so much of early feminism was focused around letting women be 'masculine' too. Plus I'm not down with the whole 'demonize men' thing at all.

I mean it in the sense of how anon #2 explained. I've known way too many guys, myself included, that had serious mental or physical health problems that they just never told anyone about. Because men aren't allowed to show pain or fear or illness. Or they stayed and were abused for year because they felt it was their manly duty to support their gf no matter what, and men don't feel pain so it doesn't matter if she hits him. Or they were so afraid of the social backlash that they just never drinking their favorite drinks or watched their favorite shows or played 'girly' games like the Sims like they wanted, and instead lived some kind of Masculine Stereotype charade as it gradually beat them down more and more. I mean, dudes even stay upset about breakups longer, because talking and processing our feelings to move on is too girly.

That's how I mean toxic masculinity.

But more than that, I was specifically thinking it in the sense of entitlement to other people's selves that you see so often with murderers. Where their gf was a "bitch" who owed them sex so they felt it was okay to kill her, or whatever. In their mind women aren't even people, maybe less than animals.

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