[ SECRET POST #3774 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3774 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 13 secrets from Secret Submission Post #540.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Why does it bother you so much? Even if you don't think that there's any social justice component, at the absolute minimum, it's just people wanting more people to like their ship, which feels basically ubiquitous in fandom. It's not like wanting more people to ship your ship is unique to pairings involving POC.

And I do personally think that the social justice aspect has some juice to it - I'm loath to say anything about anyone's personal ships, but when you look at the patterns on a macro level it's hard to deny that fandom has a consistent tendency to ship non-white people way less. But you don't even have to agree with that.

[(Anonymous)]

Too many people have said they have been intimidated by SJW to attempt writing POC characters or even shipping them for fear of being fetishists.

It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios.

[(Anonymous)]

Like. At the risk of recapitulating the entire last 10 years of discussing social justice issues in fandom, all I can really say is that I don't believe that accounts for the difference. Maybe some of it. But it's not like we're just talking about writers. You can also get a general sense of how many people ship stuff, and how popular the stories that do get written are, and all of those things. And the patterns hold up there.

I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why stuff happens, I'm not going to pretend it's simple, but I am very convinced that race is one significant element in that. I think probably people go too far in complaining about "white cock" but I also think it probably exists.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I don't know how much this means, but as, for example, a non-black POC, I am less likely to write a real life black POC character because I know personally exactly what it's like when people write my race or culture and get it wrong, and don't want to inflict that on others by writing anything serious about something I'm sure I don't entirely get.

White is easy. Everyone gets white.

[(Anonymous)]

this, so much.

I happen to find a great variety of people IRL and fictional characters appealing, but I've become hesitant to admit to liking anyone who's a POC for that very reason.

(And personally I don't feel I'm fetishizing anyhow. Just as I only find some white people attractive, I only find some PoC attractive. I don't find someone attractive because of their race; their race, like their gender identity, is just one component of whatever their particular alchemy is.)

[(Anonymous)]

NA

You know I have A LOT of people saying that they're too "intimidated" to write PoC because of SJWs.

I have never seen someone saying that you can't write a PoC. The only thing even REMOTELY close that I've seen is "when you write PoC, don't write them like a blatant fetish please and thank you", which I mean, I understand considering how much submissive Asian and "big black dick" stuff I used to see in fandom. (And even then nobody was like, calling out these individual authors for writing fetishizing stereotypes.)

I'll be honest, I think this is mainly a cop-out. I don't doubt it happens sometimes, but there just isn't this huge push of PoC who want to restrict white people from writing PoC. Fuck, look at things like Overwatch fandom. It's like 90% white people writing a multitude of PoCs and nobody is having a hissy fit.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen it. The idea picked up steam a few years ago. People should only write what they know.

The sensible rebuttal was what about people who like scifi, because there are a dearth of Martian writers? But proponents charged ahead anyway.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

N. K. Jemisin had a great series of tweets on "write what you know." It's not, "write only about what you see in your living room," it's "go out and do research in support of your great story."

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, but the strident part of fandom can be so literal.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's important to consider that different fandoms have really different demographics. Finn/Poe was THE juggernaut ship in TFA fandom for like the first two months, but people were getting sent death threats and callouts on the kink meme for wanting top!Finn because that was racist ~big black man~ whatever. And now the most popular pairing is Kylux.

TFA fandom was SJ-heavy (probably because of the movie demographics) and teenager-heavy (a movie requires low resource buy-in compared to a video game). IDK anything about overwatch fandom, but it's totally possible that it has a different level of SJW harassment risk.

Also, I think this has been noticeably changing over time. If you compare the lack of Shawn/Gus for Psych to the totally respectable amount of content for Sam/Steve in the MCU, it looks to me like things are getting better.

Still far, far from perfect, but OP is right that 'you're a bad person for liking what you like' isn't going to help matters much.

[otakugal15]

Uh, as for OW, I HAVE seen people getting frothy over people who don't like or don't want Pharah/Mercy, McCree/Hanzo, and Zarya/Mei to be canon. Like, holy shit frothy.

And lol, I hate all three of those. Mainly because they fit some of the most stereotypical tropes, ESPECIALLY McCree/Hanzo and Zarya/Mei.

Zarya/Mei gets to me the most because it is SUCH a pair-the-spares pair AND it just makes the typical lady is a butch, make her lesbian and make her date the fat chick.

Which, isn't a bad thing, but it's been done into the ground as far as fandom is concerned that it's gotten OLD really fast. And boring.

[(Anonymous)]

"I have never seen someone saying that you can't write a PoC."

Look up winterfox.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, the last time I would have felt I wasn't taking a big risk by writing a PoC character for something I was going to post online was pre-RaceFail '09.

[otakugal15]

Was that for the movie-that-should-not-be-named or the bullshit in the Trek Fandom when people were frothing at the mouth over Sphura?

[arcadiaego]

Neither:

https://fanlore.org/wiki/RaceFail_%2709

[(Anonymous)]

Bullshit.

They're looking for a goddamn excuse and now they have one. There wasn't a giant abundance of non-fetishy PoCs before modern SJWs, so your point means jack and shit.

[(Anonymous)]

"Your pairings mean you're racist and you should stop shipping them or go kill yourself."
has never, in the history of the internet and probably well before that, resulted in someone going "Wow, you're right! Thanks for opening my eyes. Screw Reylo, I'm a Stormpilot shipper all the way now!"

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that many people on the Internet are stupid and awful

I don't have any other reply to you here

[(Anonymous)]

Shouldn't your example be Kylux instead of Reylo?

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, sure Kylux is white cock, but Reylo is specifically about how it's better to ship a woman with her white abuser than her black canon lover and so Stormpilot fans never miss an opportunity to attack them for their super-racism.

[(Anonymous)]

...............WTF.

[(Anonymous)]

Bitching about too much white cock feels less like "Come ship my POC ship because it is awesome!" and more like "You're a racist douche for shipping the thing you like. You should ship the thing I like in an attempt to prove to me that you are not an asshole."

One comes across better than the other.