[ SECRET POST #3776 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3776 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[French politics / My Little Pony]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 56 secrets from Secret Submission Post #541.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/T2gMYNZ.png

[(Anonymous)]

I'm super not interested in transfic but you should be able to read whatever you want in your free time. Most fanfiction is fetishizing someone.

[(Anonymous)]

Is there porn that exists that doesn't fetishize or objectify somebody?

[(Anonymous)]

It really depends on how you define those two words, because both of them can be applied in a lot of different ways.

[(Anonymous)]

The answer appears to be "no" then, since the question was asking about porn that definitely does not do either.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not super well known, but there is a subset of porn that revolves around happy people enjoying sex with each other.

I mean the line can get blurry, but there's a noticeable difference between a couple having filmed sex and the couple happens to be interracial, and a white woman screaming "Give me your big chocolate cock, n****r-boy! You damn n***r! Fuck me, n***r." during porn.

[(Anonymous)]

...Yes? It's all in how you describe the characters, tbh. Think of a female character with a sexuality. There are characters in that category who exist that aren't meant to be straight male fap fodder, but are written for girls. (Congrats: if a girl's story in her canon is about her reclaiming her sexuality, she's typically written for other women as someone to show that it's OK to have one and it's yours to own ad do with as you please)

Doesn't stop men from latching onto them, but you can tell in how they're treated by the narrative and other characters. Are they treated positively? Is there the sense they're a character and not, you know, an object in how the narrative treats her?

It's similar in how you can tell from the narrative if an author condones the negative views of their characters or not. So yes, there's porn out there that exists that doesn't fetishize or objectify anyone and this feels like someone feeling around for an excuse to keep doing it.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm curious why you assume that fic IS predominantly coming from a fetishizing place? Like, if you like it and it enjoy it and it isn't obviously objectifying. I mean, I'm not saying there isn't shitty fic, or PWP, or whatever out there, but fandom in general is hugely character/emotion/subjective focused. Even if fics are awkward and coming out of prurient curiosity, or kids who don't know how to be sensitive wanting to explore gender stuff that they might not eventually identify with, I feel like that's a very different dynamic and process from mainstream obsession?

(Partly this is coming from me really wishing that we as a culture could learn to separate 'fetishizing' from 'any attraction' across the board, because desire is healthy and important and we don't need new reasons to be ashamed of it while trying to get rid of the old ones. Obviously this doesn't extend to hurting real people, but it's still a thing.)

For Full Disclosure: I'm a cis person currently in the middle of writing a fic that turns a canon male character into an mtf. A LOT of it is about her perspective and experience, but there's also porn. It's about the same amount of porn as my fics of him as a cis dude. I'm trying to do research as I go and be good about stuff, but yeah, I may be biased.

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP
Personally, I have found that the vast majority of transfic featuring ftm trans people tends to focus on binders/breasts and vaginas to such an extent that it's very hard not to see the fetishisation of the "otherness" of trans bodies there. Trans is the new fetish fad atm, that's just a simple fact.

(And then there's this subgroup of writers who want to write hetsmut but still profit from the size of popular slash ships so they pretend their generic het fic is trans fic and just switch out a few pronouns. But that's an entirely different matter.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'll freely admit I haven't read very much ftm fic, mostly because when I encountered it (mostly in homestuck fandom with trans!Dave) a huuuuge proportion of it just seemed to be....not well written, by very young writers who were treating transness as like...Another Angst Thing For Angsty Cool Teen Fic, or awkward issue fic wish-fulfillment with Bro being super chill and accepting (whether transness was the issue they needed wish-fulfillment parent figure acceptance about or not).

I can definitely imagine how young female writers who might be alienated from their bodies in a way that might or might not have anything to do with transness (because our culture sucks about respecting or accepting women's bodies) might write ftm in a way that was super uncomfortable for actual trans people, for reasons other than 'omg dude with these parts is so weeeird and iiiiinteresting'. I can also imagine dumb kids trying real hard to write SJW APPROVED ISSUE FIC and lingering on binders because it's like...the only marker they know/understand. But I also definitely believe that there's a lot of bad fetishy stuff out there that doesn't market itself that way.

I mostly asked because the OP specifically mentioned that they found at least some body of ftm fic that they found genuinely fulfilling in terms of desirability and such, and they didn't mention cringing or ignoring parts of it. I think there's a big leap between 'there's some really shitty ftm fic that reflects our society's terribleness about trans bodies' and 'even in the absence of this particular fic I'm enjoying sending up, I ought to assume that it's "almost certain born from fetishizing and objectifying"'. Like, IF you can't tell the author's mindset from the fic, maybe it's actually fine?

(Then again, the whole ABO phenomenon squicks me the fuck out because it feels to be almost like your hetwriters in reverse - slash writers who want to write hyper heterosexual tropes without including any ~icky women~. IDK, 90% of everything is terrible, but I think if OP, who spends all day thinking about this stuff, sincerely gets to enjoy it, maybe it's because there's pockets of decent stuff out there. I live in hope.)

[(Anonymous)]

well that's great for you. as a transguy who can't afford hormones or top surgery, I find transman fic and art extremely uncomfortable. I don't like constant reminders of what I am and what I can't have.

it's not the fetishizing that gets me at all, it's the self-butt-patting glorifying of markers of transgenderism. like, "let's hit all the checkboxes - binder? scars? blind comfort with genitals? yay look at me and how progressive I am!" there's often an underlying smugness about how much better the artist/writer is for glorifying these giant blinking red flags of difference rather than just going with the cis default. that is what this transguy hates.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed completely.

I'm just thinking about these scars. They always look like a fucking butcher cut them up. Like beacons, signifying how virtuous the artist is.

[(Anonymous)]

This, a hundred times this. I'm in a place in my life where I can't afford transitioning either and this specific type of fanart and fic increases my dysphoria just by looking at it. I don't want to stop anyone from creating this kind of content but it certainly is something I'm actively avoiding. It's not like it's meant for people like me anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

I think people on here were talking about this like a week ago? There's some shitty Marvel fanartist who draws all these markers SUPER exaggerated and acts like they're gods gift to transgender people. They even have all their 'transmen' characters wearing dresses and bright makeup all the time like it's some bonus representation modifier. The transmen I've known were not all opposed to a small amount of makeup or slightly feminine clothes OCCASIONALLY, but for the most part that shit made them super dysphoric. When my one transmale friend asked me to do his makeup, he wanted me to do contouring to make him look more masculine. I wish people would listen to what actual transpeople want in their representation.

[(Anonymous)]

Good old Rory.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes this. My favourite are those smug little shits who write surprise!transfic where they reveal halfway through that oh hey, character A is actually trans! "Look, you didn't even notice it and I tricked you! Look how great and progressive I am!" No, fuck you, you're an asshat who has no problem with potentially throwing actual transpeople with dysphoria under the bus because guess what? Fandom is my escapism to not have to think/be reminded of this all the fucking time.

[digitalghosts]

I would say that most are written by people who are also still transitioning and possibly younger so lots of stuff does not apply to older folks (or even younger or anyone at all) . I don't read those unless plot is something else but at least people have material and it might help them with various awareness.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

In my experience a lot of the characters tend to be younger too. Like I empathize with AYRT, I'm poor as dirt so sometimes I worry I won't be able to continue my T and I was in a position when I was younger where I couldn't transition, so I get it.

But for a lot of these characters it's just not feasible for them to be post top surgery and while I do get the whole binder fetish thing (I hate it personally, that's part of the whole "fetishization" deal). I actually vastly prefer trans fic where the guy is post-top surgery since that's where I am too, but I'm not going to penalize somebody for writing someone like...say, Hinata in my secret, as not having top surgery yet. It happens, but it's much rarer than having to wait.

[(Anonymous)]

Basically this. I've seen so many fics where the trans individual in question is completely okay with having sex and not being dysphoric about the genitals that they have, but don't want to have and I'm just like... oookay.

[(Anonymous)]

From my admittedly limited experience, most fic featuring trans men is written by trans men themselves as thinly veiled self-insert.

[(Anonymous)]

In my experience, it's written by women who write it because they find trans men hot. They're also usually shipped with guys to give them the sweet yaoiz. See: Trans!Naoto from Persona 4. She has masculine hobbies, so she must therefore be a guy.

[(Anonymous)]

This is a little like claiming that most fic featuring gay men is written by gay men.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Lol as a trans guy at least I'm happy you're admitting it's super limited experience because it shows.

There are some trans men who have trans headcanons (and no, just because someone thinks "I'd like to see characters LIKE me" doesn't mean it's a self-insert, you can start claiming that shit when the character suddenly starts acting exactly like the author or some shit but simply making a cis male trans isn't a self-insert), but like another commenter said the vast majority of this stuff is written by cis women who find the idea of gay sex between trans men and cis men hot.

It's kind of odd to look at the trends because historically and even now the majority of gay cis/trans porn is actually consumed by cis gay men--Buck Angel has talked about his rise in porn and when he first started he assumed he was going to be forbidden titillation for straight housewives who wanted a little walk on the wild side, and he ended up with a MAJORITY cis gay male fanbase, which definitely influenced a lot of his choices of partners in some of his porn, it's like bear-on-bear beefcake muscle as far as the eye can see--but when we delve into the writing and fanart side of things it's overwhelmingly cis women who write and draw it.

I don't know if I necessarily buy that all of these women are specifically attracted to trans men for themselves necessarily, but just like with cis/cis slash fic they seem to find slash involving cis men on trans men super hot as a "bystander" of sorts. Of course there's the ladies who think trans men are just the bee's knees IRL too, but it's less common than the whole bystander thing in my experience.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it's because my ace ass has been avoiding the porn? But most of what I've read turned out to be vent fic that was super OOC and where it was super obvious the writer was using the story as a platform to air their grievances and talk about their dysphoria etc.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad you've found something to enjoy reading!