Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-06-29 05:07 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-06-29 05:07 pm
[ SECRET POST #541 ]
⌈ Secret Post #541 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
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aa_secret, Ace Attorney secrets!Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #078.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - empty comment ], [ 1 - random link ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 131
Since there's merchandise like This (http://accidentalanime.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/kodomo-no-jikan-loli-gone-too-far/") based on a nine-year-old?
What "point" is there to "Kodomo no Jikan" other than "this should have never been made?" I think alarm bells go off when the series is pulled from US distribution (apparently they pulled it when they actually read it) and the TV broadcast in Japan has to be censored. I fail to see how any sort of argument can be made for the propriety of this show when it features scenes where the main male protagonist gets erections from incredibly forced situations that are nothing but spank-bank fodder. There is a difference between shows about first crushes and shows meant for lonely 30something hikkikomori who are jacking it to a nine year old.
"At least they aren't raping children" is such a ridiculous strawman argument. I mean, at ABSOLUTE BEST I will MAYBE accept that for some miserable Humbert Humbert type who is ONLY being penned in his room by whacking off to Moetan's panties, but if we're talking about people who are developing a taste for it from this continually disturbing anime trend, it's an entirely different situation. In the case of the latter, if these things had not been made, they would not have this problem in the first place.
There's a difference between "age disparity" and "statutory rape," and if you are thirteen, that just makes me incredibly, incredibly sad.
Re: 131
Thank you for saying it with so much more politeness than I could have ever hoped to muster.
Re: 131
Jesus Christ, fiction is srs bisnss. So just because you dictate something as bad means the world must think so too and anybody who remotely likes it--just for the sake of entertainment, not as wank fodder--is a bad person? And you know what, what difference does it make if I'm thirteen or twenty-three? I know that I'm not going out to hunt for six year old boys when I'm older. Yes, KnJ took it too far. I admit that. I can see where you're coming from, I really can, but I'm a normal person in my own right.
Re: 131
Why are you asking me what difference it makes if you are thirteen or twenty-three when you were the one that brought age into this conversation?
If you really are thirteen, you are on the other end of the spectrum here and, quite honestly, this is not really a side of this argument I've ever experienced before. I can somewhat relate because when I was thirteen I was watching shows with sexual content that I just flat-out didn't notice at the time, but there's a difference between seeing some bouncing boobs in Ranma 1/2 and something that is glorifying the sexual relationship between a grade-schooler and their teacher.
In your case I wouldn't necessarily worry that you'll someday be hunting little boys-- I'd worry more that you might go off and be on the receiving end of one of those "age disparate" relationships you were talking about liking. You might think you're mature, but you are not even legally old enough to make decisions like this. At 13, having a relationship with, say, a 30 year old, would really just screw up your psyche. Do you know what happens to the titular character in the novel Lolita? By the end of the book, she has completely fucked up her life before she's even a legal adult. (so much for the quintessential "it's fiction so it's okay"-- Lolita comes out of the relationship in the end irreversibly damaged)
I have no doubt that you're absolutely a normal person, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because you're so young. I still remember what it was like to be 13, after all.
If you aren't thirteen like you said you are, though, I take that back, because pretending to be a thirteen-year-old on the internet is uhhh, not really very normal at all.
Re: 131
Me? I personally wouldn't go out looking for a relationship with a much older man, but there are girls who do. I acknowledge the very high risk associated with that. Not everybody's lives are messed up by that, however. Yet the majority counts, right?
As for the series itself--which was the original topic at hand--I don't think that it's best to approach it with a serious mindset. If that thing disturbs you, okay then. We'll just leave it at that. And I've read Lolita, I know she was deeply disturbed and messed up by the end of the book. That is essentially the most important piece of fiction to expose this subject. It's highly controversial. At the end of the day, I am more of a fan of platonic/non-sexual relationships with major age differences. I don't think I've ever met a person in fandom in real life who has taken their personal tastes in fiction to the outside world.
*sighs* I have a very difficult time getting my opinions across without making a major flaw in my argument. I apologize for coming off in such an immature and rude way. I realize the fallacies that I've come to believe. And for the record, I find 99.99% of child pornography/loli/shota/pedophilia disgusting. Kodomo no Jikan is a drop in the sea. You should see its doujins. The DOUJINKA are the sick people, trust me.
tl;dr: I fail, I acknowledge this, and yet I continue to fail.
Re: 131
I appreciate your reconsideration of the subject, and I think it shows a lot of maturity that you're willing to discuss this with me like you are.
I still don't necessarily agree that it's not good to approach this sort of thing with a serious mindset. I mean, when Japan actually starts considering making 2d underaged erotica illegal (even if legislation has been pushed back on that a couple years), you can't help but wonder if the problem has gone too far.
I totally agree that KnJ is hardly the fount from which all of these problems originate, but it IS, at least in my opinion, possibly the most indicative of the fact that there is a problem with the industry today. I agree that it's MUCH MORE so with the fans of the material, but the fact that there is something for them to be fans OF (and the fact that it was popular enough to be ANIMATED!) that should really set off some alarm bells.
Re: 131
(Anonymous) 2008-06-30 08:25 pm (UTC)(link)too bad you were a douchebag and a lot of us reading along dismissed you right out for being such a cuntfaced bitch about it all. maybe you should also watch your 'internet catchphrases' and argue intelligently as well.
Re: 131
I was happy that, at the very least, this hadn't degraded into insults, but that's apparently the only thing a walking man-baby such as yourself understands. I'm going to say something on your level so you understand it: get lost, you spineless childfucker. If despising a rising trend in mainstream animated child porn makes me a douchebag, I will wear that title.
Re: 131
Re: 131
Second, unfortunately, you're fighting an uphill battle that you're never going to win. For some reason that I still don't understand, the ONE creepy, sick and absolutely abhorrent sexual sickness that everyone in the world has to defend in comic book form is pedophilia, because every single time that one mentions 'hey guys, that's sort of child porn' about shota or chan or whatever the cutesy name they use, you get a hundred or so replies telling you 'but it's NOT REAL. Can't you differentiate between reality and fiction?' (Ironically, those same defenders usually get up on arms about RPS... because writing fictional sexual stories about adults is somewhat worse more and reprehensible than writing and drawing what at the end is nothing more than kiddie porn)
'But real children aren't being victimized, so it's ok', they say. Never mind that it's becoming a trend, never mind that even shows that are targeted for young audiences end up having disturbing fan service and skewed generation gaps that in real life are statutory rape situations at best and every parent nightmare at worst (Check Card Captor Sakura, for instance. Sure, it's cute as hell, and sure, the main couple it's nice, and it's not even near the realms of Kodomo no Jinkan... But there's still a thirteen year old girl getting engaged to a 30 something and presented as a 'good' and 'cute' and 'romantic' thing in the background, and no one seems to mind that)
But anyway, I'm so glad that there are still people in fandom that get that no matter how much we can get behind the 'not real' label (I dislike incest, and rape, and a bunch of other kinky stuff on fandom, but avoiding them is as easy as not clicking the links and as long as it's consenting adults, not a problem.), THIS is the one trend that shouldn't be allowed to grow.
Re: 131
I was getting really scared, especially since there's such a bizarre trend toward favoring this uncomfortable underaged trend in anime. I mean, Jesus, I've been to too many message boards and whatever that actually have to sit down and make a rule about it, when this is the kind of thing that really goes without saying.
I totally agree with you-- there are lots of things that still gross me out, but none of them get me nearly as upset as animated kiddie porn, and I think that's because there isn't air around other fetishes that makes the industry think it's okay to slip them into totally unrelated shows. There's a loli/shouta epidemic going on right now, and it's just outright troubling. I mean, it's kind of ironic that anime USED to be touted as "those porn cartoons," when most of the older shows are straight-up benign compared to the panty shots they're slipping into shows meant for preteen girls.
Oh my god, I sound so old saying that.
Re: 131
When it gets to the point where you have to apologize for not liking kiddie porn, and you have to use cute names to hide it, then you know that there's a problem.
I only heard about KnJ because of the huge outrage that was created because it was pulled out of publication for the states (And how many levels of wrong are there? People were complaining *because* it wasn't going to be published, and shooting down the ones who were saying 'it's not the kind of material we, as otaku, should want in mainstream shelves if nothing else for our own image, damn it')
So yeah, we've got to support each other when we find more fans that stand up and say 'wait. We're normalizing this stuff. Is that really a good idea?' right?