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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-12-16 03:40 pm
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[ SECRET POST #4000 ]


⌈ Secret Post #4000 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 42 secrets from Secret Submission Post #573.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2017-12-16 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know why this happened either and I dislike her so it was annoying. At least she was only in like 4 episodes.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-16 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think he's crazy violent in love with her, he stands close to her in an elevator for five seconds and then goes back to being all about his dead wife. But fandom reads this sudden closeness as a forever love for some wackadoodle reason. Is this because he rescues her from a killer? How is this any different from any other time she's been rescued? I'm not seeing what the shippers are seeing but it's really funny to watch shippers interact with the official Punisher accounts and get shot down every time they ask for Frank/Karen validation lol.

What bothers me is that he was a total ass to her in DD, he literally rams a car into hers and leaves her there bleeding, he lies to her, uses her as bait, he protects her a couple of times but he's such an asshole to her, he just dgaf, and Karen finally figures this out at the end. But somehow the kastle shippers simultaneously yell about how Karen is a feminist paragon, she don't need no man, but also she loves Frank so much in Punisher and has since DD and now they're end game, their love is so pure. lol wut

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 01:56 am (UTC)(link)
Did you seriously miss all the romantic subtext? It's not like Karen and Frank are so in love with each other, but there's something there, and that something has some heavy subtext in The Punisher.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
ayrt What romantic subtext? I'm basing my read of their relationship off of his bashing her in DD, so that's not a good relationship to begin with, but he asks her for help in Punisher, gets her involved in his messes, and loyalty is huge for him, as seen by all his other relationships. He kills people to protect a good kid who shared a sandwich with him, and he kills for everybody in his 'family'. It's all he has left in his life, so when I'm looking at Karen and Frank standing close to each other and he gives her the same head bump he gives the rest of his 'family' I'm not reading anything shippy into that, considering how little time they spend together and how Frank isn't thinking of her at the end of the series, he's still all about his wife.

Since Netflix Marvel hasn't validated anything about them being a ship and only seems to support Karen as Frank's 'family', then I'm just taking that at face value. They could always validate it but then I'd be grossed out to think that any woman would put up with how Frank treated Karen in the past and consider them an end game lovey romance now. That's just depressing.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 08:25 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I think he's still in love with his wife and sees Karen as family to protect because of her efforts to protect *him* in DD.

And Karen...well, I don't get her character at all and her apparent obsession but also repulsion for violent men that she can chastize for violent tendencies when she is an unrepentant murderer, herself. (There was no reason she had to shoot unarmed Westley when she had his gun in her hand. In fact, *not* killing him would have meant having a wedge to bring down Fisk legally. Also, she's very shady about her past and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the first "self-defense" act she's indulged in.)

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 08:13 pm (UTC)(link)
You're not wrong about Karen. Your reasoning is exactly why she gets a lot of hate in the DD fandom, because she's such a hypocrite. I'm really tired of how the shows seem to let her get away with everything and that's okay, but the dudes have to pay the full price for fucking up even a little.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
I don't disagree with you about DD, but there's no denying the whole Frank/Karen thing is a lot more shippy in The Punisher. I wouldn't be surprised if the series goes that way. I don't agree with it, but I wouldn't be surprised.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-16 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)
It annoys me that they're dragging out this dynamic, but you must be seriously projecting your own feelings about Karen if you don't think he cared about her in Daredevil.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-21 12:50 am (UTC)(link)
Wait what? How did he care about her? He protected her from getting killed, is that what you mean? He gives her patriarchal and condescending af relationship advice while lying to her and using her as bait. He was an ass to her. They have a shippy moment in Punisher and ia with the op, wtf does that even come from and why is it ok

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 01:42 am (UTC)(link)
This is exactly how I felt about Twilight re: Edward/Bella. I thought someone had ripped out the pages where the romance began/developed. I was really confused.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 02:27 am (UTC)(link)
Frank Castle in the MCU is incredibly violent, obsessive, and explosively volatile. While there's definitely some romantic subtext there, it doesn't come off to me like he's violently in love with her so much as he has some feelings for her, and is also completely incapable of anything even vaguely resembling a measured response when anyone he cares about even a tiny bit is in danger.

I mean, the man killed a bunch of thugs and then went out and tracked down some mob goons to murder in order to protect a guy who shared a sandwich and commiserated about some shitty coworkers with him. His response to someone who's been kind to him and repeatedly tried to help him at not-insignificant risk to herself over the course of a year or two being targeted by a terrorist he already had in his sights after the guy strapped one of his old war buddies to a bomb doesn't really seem all that out of the ordinary for him.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
This. The way Frank will kill for anybody who helps him (he killed the Hand for Daredevil ffs) is a big thing and idk how people miss that and seem to think he only ever does it for Karen? This isn't about Karen, this is about who Frank is.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. It's the part of his character they try to balance out with all those fuzzy flashbacks of his wife and family. See? He's a loving guy! Meanwhile, ultraviolent toward anyone he judges bad.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-17 12:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Oddly, at first glance, I thought this was Jon and Sansa.

(Anonymous) 2017-12-18 03:10 am (UTC)(link)
I have no horse in this race and haven't even watched Punisher; it's not my cuppa, and I don't think the character is attractive.

But there was totally something going on between Karen and Frank in Daredevil, asshole though he was.
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