[ SECRET POST #4023 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4023 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #576.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/TrcU4Nq.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

But he really didn't cause "so many deaths", though. He really, really did not. That is not what happened in the movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you mean "if the First Order wasn't killing people those people wouldn't have died" or "it's not his fault people followed him into a perilous situation bc I'm lost"

[(Anonymous)]

& I mean "i'm lost" as in "I'm not sure what you're getting at"

[(Anonymous)]

They mean "HDY hold my baby accountable for his actions, you poopyhead."

[(Anonymous)]

It depends what you're talking about specifically. I think the deaths of his squadron were his responsibility, but his squadron were also soldiers fighting a war. But I think those are the only ones that were really his responsibility.

[philstar22]

He specifically authorized a mission, without telling his superior, just because he decided he didn't like her. That mission led to the First Order finding out about the plan of his superiors. So yes, he does bear some responsibility for that.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it is a good thing he was fleshed out in TLJ and his flaws ultimately make him more interesting... but I agree, they also made him less likable.

[(Anonymous)]

I was thoroughly spoiled before going in so I had heard his character had been completely assassinated. I was actually pleasantly surprised on that score. I didn't think his actions were good but I thought they were coming from a place of concern for his fellow rebels so that was better than what I was imagining.

I do end up siding with Holdo though.

[(Anonymous)]

I would side with Holdo if she had given a reason for why she couldn't tell Poe (or anyone else) the plan. Even leaving mutiny aside, that was just causing people unnecessary fear and anxiety and for what? What reason was there besides drama and creating a situation where Poe learns he can fail? As it is, they both are idiots.

[(Anonymous)]

I still think Holdo was way less at fault than Poe. I still side with her.

[(Anonymous)]

both of them were wrong IMO. and I also liked both of them a lot.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think he's less at fault, but Holdo (and Leia?) created a situation that people were going to react to badly, and they could have avoided it altogether by assuring people that they had a plan and did not intend to get blown up by the First Order (even if they didn't divulge what the plan was, that might have gone a long way towards allaying people's fears). Making people think they were going to die was unnecessary. Poe wasn't alone in the mutiny, so clearly other people were worried about the situation. If he had done nothing, someone else probably would have led a mutiny instead.

Holdo's actions are just really weird. The movie never acknowledges this, either, which is frustrating. Poe screws up and he's wrong for wanting to solve all his problems by blowing things up. Holdo screws up and... nothing. No reason given for why she wouldn't say anything earlier.

I don't know what Holdo's official backstory is, but the impression she made upon me was of someone who rose to her position by being very good at certain aspects of war, but who isn't very good at dealing with people when they're frightened or frustrated.

[(Anonymous)]

The only somewhat reasonable explanation I've heard is she didn't know if there was a spy on board, since they were being traced or whatever, so she avoided being truthful. But even so.

[(Anonymous)]

If they had said this in the movie, that would have improved things. As it is, it feels more like "this is what happens because the plot says so" than a situation that makes sense.

[ninety6tears]

Yeah, that was stupid. It was just not a well written conflict so I refuse to take sides.

I also thought it was really unnecessary and manipulative within that story to make Holdo subtly unlikeable at first in ways that aren't really cleaned up by the end when it's "haha, gotcha, she's the good guy" like her dismissing Finn, a person who had and fully deserved Leia's trust, as "some storm trooper"?

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is the crux of the problem and why, at least on an emotional level, it's not as straightforward as "Poe didn't follow orders." That doesn't mean Holdo was in the wrong or Poe is absolved, but... it's messy, unresolved, and unsatisfying. I can't really articulate what I'm getting at, but I agree the movie seems to be manipulating the audience to dislike Holdo.

I also feel the whole thing borders on "Give the Idiot Ball to Character A so that Character B will look better in comparison" and I hate that.

The picking apart of the situation that's been done in this thread really isn't resolving this part of the issue for me.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Yeah, there is a bit of that going on. I found that entire plot line to be poorly written, with a lot of "hey, we're a misfit adventure story" competing with "hey we're a war story."

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Basic operational security. Holdo had to work on the assumption that someone in the Resistance may have been leaking information to The Order. In addition, The Resistance was dealing with deserters, and the Order had a mind-reading dark Jedi in their pocket. Refusing to discuss with non-essential personnel either the existence of the base or the plan to evacuate using transports was common sense under those conditions.

[philstar22]

All of this. I do wish they'd found a way to say one or more o these things, but they are still all true.

[ketita]

This. Intelligence security and need-to-know are really big deals, and for good reason.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering one of the mutineers was a member of her bridge crew trying to carry out her orders (pretty essential I would have thought), it's clear she told absolutely no one which is really undercutting this argument.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he was basically written as a stand in for a cocky guy who needs to be taught a lesson or two (by women)? I don't mind it as a plot point (although I'm not really that convinced by the way it was written), but there isn't really much to fall in love with in his character. Anyway, I don't think that the sriptwriter was interested in his character (or Finn's for that matter).

Nerdist calls Poe the REAL Villain of TLJ

[(Anonymous)]

https://nerdist.com/poe-dameron-villain-star-wars-last-jedi/