[ SECRET POST #4025 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4025 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 20 secrets from Secret Submission Post #576.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. https://78.media.tumblr.com/21d34a042579cdcd368042fb20783f0a/tumblr_p1yo18WCl01w8qvzio1_r2_1280.png

[morieris]

A REDWALL SECRET?

ON MY FANDOM SECRETS?

OMG

[morieris]

ok ok about the secret;

I agree, Jaques always intended it to be (well I guess after, gosh, which one had Squire Julian and the Owl, Redwall or Mossflower, I think Mossflower) super black and white morality and that's why Outcast really didn't work.

A few Designated Evil animals like Romsca and (Blaggutt? Someone in either Salamandastron or The Bellmaker) kind of revolted but it was bucking the status quo and never really stuck.

It got kind of better with Doomwyte and the asshole Log A Log, if that's the right book.

[(Anonymous)]

Squire Julian was definitely in Mossflower and spent most of the time in his sister's dungeon in Kotir. But owls aren't mentioned until Mariel of Redwall which is the first mention of the Flitchaye to the North. (Went and checked maps.)

But yeah, as to your comment. Yeah, the books were always meant to be more black and white due to the fact he was originally writing for a younger reader despite the length of them. At least, that's what it always felt like to me. Harry Potter before Harry Potter so to speak. It was only later when Middle Grade and New Adult started becoming more of a thing instead of just Young Adult and Adult in publishing that they became more grey.

It does make me wish that Outcast was written later? But at least we can have good discussion about it.

[morieris]

Yeah, I don't hate it or anything but it is...worse because of the confines of the world he made.

[(Anonymous)]

SA or was Squire Julian the one who was descended from the Kotir cat and almost ate somebody and it turned out he was vegetarian.

-checks- Okay Gingivere was in Mossflower... Julian was in Redwall with Captain Snow.

How did I forget Captain Snow? I think a reread of these books is in order during my next headaches. Yeesh.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate this idea that young readers can't understand complex morality. I read Outcast as a kid and the ending never sat well with me. That was about when I stopped being excited for the series. If that was really his reasoning than I'm offended by his poor regard for his readers. We can read a novel that's hundreds of pages long, but we can't accept that someone with "bad genes" can grow up good?

[(Anonymous)]

First off, Blaggut was the best.

But to the secret, the Bellmaker (with Blaggut's whole arc) was the book just prior to Outcast so it was really strange to have a whole arc devoted to showing that the 'vermin' could actually be good and then backtrack so severely the very next book.
I remember being really throw off the first time I read it and while I've read many of the books again, I never reread Outcast of Redwall.

[morieris]

It was definitely moving to be a bit more grey and creative until he died. That still makes me sad.

[morieris]

Also bc you're the only one who would get this i guess, the fact that in High Rhulain one of the wildcats is like I COME FROM THE LINE OF UNGATT TRUNN AND YOU COME FROM A LINE OF CATS THAT ENDED UP DOMESTICATED.

Like why does no one talk about who tf domesticated wild cats???????

[(Anonymous)]

Part of it could be Jacques' writing style? Yes, the worldbuilding is very black and white, but the style is such that for a lot of character work you have to read between the lines? I remember having the impression that not all the Abbey creatures were nice to him, talked about him as being bad just from blood alone and kept a sharp eye on him because they were certain he'd turn out bad. I don't care if you're a ferret or a squirrel, that's going to be difficult on you when the only champion is your surrogate 'mother.' Eventually, you give up and just act out.

But the worldbuilding at the time of Outcast really couldn't do the story as much justice because Jacques had embedded into people's mind some rodents good, other rodents bad with no clear reason why. In later books, yeah, it became clearer that good rodents could be bad, but not as many of the 'bad' rodents became good. (Foxes etc.)

The bones of the story were good, I think the writing let it down a little. And the ending was supposed to be a punch in the gut type of thing I think, but they didn't make Veil quite sympathetic enough for it to work. Good first attempt? -sips tea-

I’m just going to leave this here

[feotakahari]

“I appreciate the kind way in which you approached your misgivings regarding the manuscript for this book, especially after I reminded you of the unfortunate way in which I had to terminate my previous nine editors after discovering they were all on the side of the vermin hordes. "Does every vermin character have to be 100% evil?" they had queried of me. Like the vermin races could be anything but the lowest scum, created that way from birth. As I have aspired to show with the bulk of my literature, one should have no hatred for those born with lower, dirty souls, but, as the denizens of Redwall abbey have discovered again and again, one must be prepared to expel or even exterminate these vermin races should the natural evil within them ever rear its vile head.”

http://www.somethingawful.com/news/bargain-book-bin-3/

Re: I’m just going to leave this here

[dani_phantasma]

.......um...yikes......that just uh... wow

EDIT: So I did some digging around and apparently that link is a satire according to sources I've found elsewhere?

Re: I’m just going to leave this here

[feotakahari]

Yeah, it's a joke.

[juliamon]

Outcast always frustrated me because of the huge missed opportunity and because it just felt like such a step back. There had been good (or at least neutral) vermin characters prior (personally I always loved Dingeye and Thura and will defend them forever) but as soon as one gets to be a main character they have to be actually evil? It actually put me off the series, I read a couple books after that but otherwise abandoned them as no longer worth my time.